Smashing, yeah. But Harimoto and Ito don't spend most of their time smashing..
(The old books called it the "kill".)Iskandar
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| Flat hit a forehand. https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=33687 |
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| Author: | Bobv [ 01 Dec 2018, 13:16 ] |
| Post subject: | Flat hit a forehand. |
I have no idea where to post this question. I dont see a category for it, so forgive me but looking for any instruction on how to flat hit my forehand, or flat hit kill it. Thanks for any advice. |
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| Author: | lasta [ 01 Dec 2018, 18:26 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flat hit a forehand. |
Left foot forward, right foot back, knees bent upper body leaning forward. Take a backswing along the trajectory you intend to hit until you feel natural (light) tension on the biceps, shoulder and slighty on the chest. Right leg push, waist turn, shoulder, arm, wrist all going along with your intended trajectory. Best to maintain congruent motion, especially legs, waist and arm. But if you find that too much, then leading with the forearm is safer than leading with shoulder. Contact point at right side, slightly forward, with arms slightly bent. Let stroke end naturally (ie don't jerk back after contact) around forehead level. Use wrist to control bat angle (press thumb too if using penhold). Find your most comfortable starting (ie neutral) position that you can get back and repeat the same swing. More important than anything else is the backswing and starting position, if your "steady state" is consistent, you can repeat indefinitely. Smash is the same, just take a bigger backswing and let intuition take care of everything else. Stay low, i find hitting most consistent with eyes around or just slight higher than the intended trajectory. Unless you are Vlad Samsonov or Jon Snow, bend the knee and never stand up when playing TT. |
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| Author: | iskandar taib [ 01 Dec 2018, 22:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flat hit a forehand. |
I'd start with watching a couple videos: These days no one (at least, world class professionals who aren't choppers) uses a one-foot-behind-the-other stance, at least, not close to the table. They all stand square to the table with feet very widely apart and hop side to side when they need to adjust position laterally. Also remember to bend the knees and BEND FORWARD. I go through patches where I hit a lot of balls long, and in most cases it's because I forgot to bend forward. Remember also that "flat hits" aren't really flat (unless you're trying to flick a backspun ball, which is a different stroke altogether), the racket is slightly closed and you are putting topspin on the ball. The armchair drill really does work, the short from-the-elbow stroke works very nicely when hitting balls (especially short ones) at the top of the bounce. Iskandar |
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| Author: | Bobv [ 03 Dec 2018, 02:11 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flat hit a forehand. |
This is very, very helpful and thank you for the links. I was watching Mima Ito's forehand and her devastating forehand flat hit, so trying to bring that into this as well. She has a great loop and can also flat hit. I think that contributed to her win. There was some discussion about how with the new ball there is less spin produced and so the flat hit is becoming a more valid shot. I really appreciate the help. |
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| Author: | iskandar taib [ 04 Dec 2018, 01:25 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flat hit a forehand. |
It might be instructive to look at Harimoto's. It's not really a flat hit, it's sort of an over-the-table loop (the racket goes UP). In both cases the idea seems to be to hit the ball at the top of the bounce or even on the way up rather than wait for it to drop. Actually everyone seems to be doing it now. Or trying to. The Japanese have been at it for a few years already, even before the new ball appeared. Iskandar |
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| Author: | BRS [ 04 Dec 2018, 05:38 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flat hit a forehand. |
Do you know anyone who plays the lobber style? That's the best way to get a lot of practice smashing. Most fun too. Play sets or matches of lob v smash, where the lobber starts already way back and all they can do is lob and you only smash. I think the technique is the same vs a loop. All that changes is your racquet angle to account for more topspin. |
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| Author: | iskandar taib [ 04 Dec 2018, 20:31 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flat hit a forehand. |
Smashing, yeah. But Harimoto and Ito don't spend most of their time smashing.. (The old books called it the "kill".)Iskandar |
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| Author: | Bobv [ 06 Dec 2018, 07:25 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flat hit a forehand. |
This is very true. Here is a training video of Ito's footwork training: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o18wO8tOWtw Its amazing, of course, but she stays horizontal to the table (of course, she does not have time to turn), but its amazing how short her swing is. |
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| Author: | iskandar taib [ 06 Dec 2018, 13:02 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flat hit a forehand. |
Note that her "flat hit" isn't really flat... it's a regular old topspin drive. The bat's closed, the stroke is sligtly upwards. (And she takes the ball way before the top of the bounce.) Interesting that the feeder/coach plays penhold. Also note the "kouhai" in the back, unobtrusively collecting the balls.. Just found this: Iskandar |
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| Author: | Bobv [ 06 Dec 2018, 13:22 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flat hit a forehand. |
Agreed. What is interesting to me and what i am trying to implement is a shorter swing. I have a tendency to take too much of a backswing which is fine away from the table using my old defensive style, but one I am having to relearn now that I am more up to the table. |
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| Author: | iskandar taib [ 06 Dec 2018, 14:53 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flat hit a forehand. |
What really helped me was Brett's armchair video. I practiced standing close to the table and only swinging with the forearm. There's someone I often play against who blocks over the table. If I loop it comes back very quickly. I find I can neutralize this by hitting short, fast returns just using the forearm and wrist. The balls go back to him too quickly and that throws him off. Iskandar |
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| Author: | Bobv [ 07 Dec 2018, 03:41 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flat hit a forehand. |
Thanks and I agree with you on Brett's video. I am trying to do the same thing by keeping my playing elbow in relatively the same position which is a bit away from the body and slightly out in front and then trying to just work the forearm and wrist. It will take practise as I was and am so used to cranking my elbow behind me to generate power. |
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| Author: | Bobv [ 07 Dec 2018, 03:50 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flat hit a forehand. |
And thank you for the video. I really appreciate that. Here is her match against Ding Ning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpN9gCeaRLg In this video, are the barrage of attacks she is sending to Ding Ning at 6:50 mark in the match look to you to be flat hits, or speeded up versions of the forehand drives from the video I sent of her practicing? Thanks again for all your help. |
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| Author: | iskandar taib [ 16 Dec 2018, 02:34 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flat hit a forehand. |
Just came across this. Some practice games. Quite a bit to see. Looks like what she's doing is quite different compared to Harimoto. Harimoto actually loops the ball off the bounce (racket trajectory is significantly upwards). Iskandar |
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| Author: | Bobv [ 17 Dec 2018, 08:26 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flat hit a forehand. |
very helpful and thanks for finding it. She works on looping down the line quite a bit, and saw some flat hits too. Nice little push game at the end, and they also have fun and goof around with shots, too. Thanks again. |
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