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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2013, 11:28 
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What do you all think is the most important aspect of the push? Placement, spin, low-ness?

What should we all strive to improve in our pushes? Obviously all three, but what's most important in a push?

I personally think keeping the ball low and short is most important. That way, they can, at the most, flick the ball.

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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2013, 13:00 
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I don't think you can alienate one aspect of a push as the most important. Pushing is an important skill to have for sure, and with great placement can be an effective component to strategy. But good placement usually won't work without the right speed or spin or height combined with it. Equally a good short, low push won't be of much value on its own, especially if its not well placed as at its best it just gives the opponent opportunity to set something up for themself. And a good pusher will push the unwary pusher off the table without ever needing to do more than push. So I'd say the most important aspect of a push is combining several aspects well. ;)

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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2013, 13:12 
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+1 to the Count

The most effective push tactic/style I've ever had to deal with is variation. Maybe it's a combo of the things you speak of, but placement seems to be the key against me. I know I have to work on my patience when I get stuck in a pushing rally that is placed well but low and short. Whether it's just a dumb variation strategy, but I think pushing to a person's backhand, then body and, finally, to their forehand can cause serious issues if it's not your strongest style. I think it's pretty plain to suggest that pushing on your forehand is always going to be harder (less control) than backhand (when your body is behind the ball).

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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2013, 13:19 
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I agree Oskar, far easier to muck up a FH push for the lesser control (and perhaps lesser experience at it as most will try another shot instead of push if they can). However, a push off the FH can be deadly, especially if you can cut it diagonally across the table with great placement near to the net. However, I will often flip my wrist and make this push with my pips, which is usually easier and causes more hassles with spin to my opponent :devil:

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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2013, 13:44 
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A well-trained FH push with an aggressive attitude can be deadly. High risk, but I've seen players snap-push with their FH and send the ball low, fast and deadly deep.

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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2013, 16:42 
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Safety.... In 2 ways. Firstly the push should be a high percentage shot with few errors and secondly you want to make it as difficult as possible to attack you strongly. There is no single answer but generally a push needs to be either short enough or fast and long enough. If fast and long then avoid power zones or make the footwork difficult for the opponent.... Eg a fast push at the elbow. Low is good of course but allow a little margin of error, netting the ball is giving away a cheap point.

Approach of course is influenced by styles and skill levels of both yourself and your opponent. Attackers will only push when forced to do so, defenders may be happy to do so and work to draw an attack on their terms. If your opponent is a strong attacker you will likely go for heavier, deeper, riskier shots to try to keep them out or draw a mistake.

Earlier posts have touched on the angled push, there is another aspect here when sizing up the opponent. Are they good on angles? If so maybe best play them down the middle. Weak wing? Focus there.

If you can attack but are drawn into pushing rallies, consider a deep, low spin push to an awkward area, generally elbow (if opponent doesn't move well) or bh to try to draw an attackable ball.

On a similar theme spin variation can be effective and pushing one with a short stroke right off the bounce can generate heavier backspin, but is a riskier shot.

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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2013, 20:22 
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most important-placement
next-height
last-spin


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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2013, 00:50 
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This is a very good subject for me, THANKS!

I am a developing player, at level 1200 in Canada. And most players at my level think "attack" a lot and miss a lot. So I try to gain an advantage with good pushing.

so_devo said:
Quote:
If fast and long then avoid power zones or make the footwork difficult for the opponent..


This is VERY good advice!

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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2013, 02:37 
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glennholder wrote:
This is a very good subject for me, THANKS!

I am a developing player, at level 1200 in Canada. And most players at my level think "attack" a lot and miss a lot. So I try to gain an advantage with good pushing.

so_devo said:
Quote:
If fast and long then avoid power zones or make the footwork difficult for the opponent..


This is VERY good advice!


And I should have added that it is advisable to keep the stroke as short as possible. This disguises length and direction better than a longer stroke.

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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2013, 02:55 
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for a short push #1 height, #2 placement #3spin #4 depth

for a long push #1 depth, #2 placement #3 spin #4 height.

same thing applys for a chop as well


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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2013, 05:05 
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leatherback wrote:
for a short push #1 height, #2 placement #3spin #4 depth

for a long push #1 depth, #2 placement #3 spin #4 height.

same thing applys for a chop as well

It's been a long time Leatherback, nice to read your short and thoughtful posts again :)
I would like to ad deception and speed to the push. It is even more effective to trick opponent with inverted than with lp and a push is a very good way to trick the opppnnet. Push really hard but stop just before the touch and just lift the ball a little so the trajectory will be the same as a real push - do it good and it will give you a pop up that you can kill.
Also try to add speed to the push (can be connected to spin but not neccesarily), not as easy but it can be effective. Try a thicker touch with less spin and more speed. Otherwise I agree with Leatherbacks grading.

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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2013, 06:10 
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Post removed - comments were posted before realising this thread was in the Inverted pushing/Blocking section of the forum. Sorry.


Last edited by Debater on 17 Oct 2013, 16:17, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2013, 07:32 
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Leatherback!!! Yeah!!!

After a quick read, I gotta say a few stuffs.

#1 thing in TT is to land it one more time than opponent, but if your push simply just "lands", one will likely NOT be able to cope well with the next ball.

So... for pushes...

#1 thing is to read the point and decide a push is the right shot for what you PLAN to do. have a plan on what you can do and what you will get back and what you want to do with that.

#2 is to CORRECTLY read the spin. Without that, one will not make a quality push at all or even miss.

#3 is to take it early with a relaxed wrist

#4 is on par with #1&2&3 is to place it unexpectedly to further reduce chance of decisive attack

A difference between good players at or above 2000ish level and those at 1500-1600 level shows right away in why and how these players push. You can also tell by how well or not opponents attack after a push. The 1500 push will get creamed much more often than a 2000 player's push, especially in doubles.

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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2013, 09:16 
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I think the most important thing for doing a push is get it on the table, so many players can't do even do that, then practice all other aspects next

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PostPosted: 18 Oct 2013, 02:14 
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There are some really good thoughts here. I really need to work on placement variation....my pushes tend to be low and spinny but without throwing it side to side much. And yes, I suppose spin variations on a push could be effective.

I notice that when I push to an opponents forehand, they will likely give me a loopable ball.

Also, I've noticed that penhold pushes don't vary much from FH to BH....they're all good shots!

And on the fast push thing: there's a guy at my club who will sometimes do a very aggressive, fast, long push that can be hard to deal with. It tends to get returned with a ball high enough where he can flick/smash/loop it. He has this shot to a pretty high %.

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