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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 07:07 
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I have been shocked to see so many wrong services unpunished at the highest level ,especially, in Spain.The umpires do not seem to care , however, at lower levels, we can find umpires who are really brave enough to call out fouled serves. If the pros are unpunished as they should be, how do you feel as an amateur when an umpire calls out a fouled serve???

what's your experience?


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 11:07 
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CHARMANDER DEFENDER wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qOY6wk98eI

I have been shocked to see so many wrong services unpunished at the highest level ,especially, in Spain.The umpires do not seem to care , however, at lower levels, we can find umpires who are really brave enough to call out fouled serves. If the pros are unpunished as they should be, how do you feel as an amateur when an umpire calls out a fouled serve???

what's your experience?


Can't even remember ever having an umpired match.. :lol:

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 21:32 
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Well,in fact,I do have umpired matches both in the league and in tournaments. I haven't had any calls for wrong services , however, I have had and still have ,many players feeding wrong services.Providing they are not a decisive factor in the match , I do not protest....some players based their tactics on wrong services.....This must be penalised,let alone the pros.....


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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2018, 19:09 
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I think it's good to see the rules enforced, but I don't like to see it ruin a game.

PS Please don't post your topic title in all CAPITAL letters... it's the equivalent of shouting, which I'm sure is not your intention. ;)

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2018, 21:06 
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I think there needs to be a clearer definition of what constitutes "sideways" based on whether it is sideways enough to actually impact the spin that is being imparted on the ball. If the toss is not really effecting the spin that is being imparted on the ball I think we can let it go. I feel the same toss can be legal on one serve and illegal on another serve, by the same player based on the direction of the blade and the amount of sideways movement of the ball.

Another thing that I think the umpire needs to keep an eye on is whether the ball was still moving sideways when struck or not. I felt that in Ma Long's case the toss was high enough to ensure that there was minimal sideways momentum when he struck the ball. In the other cases here, I am not so sure.

I think it also boils down to the coaches who tend to encourage their proteges to bend the rules as much as possible to gain any advantage. It is quite obvious that the inwards toss is the problem, I don't think players ever toss it away from themselves, so I feel it is not so much the sideways momentum that they are looking for as much as concealment - trying to serve as close to the body and behind the tossing arm as possible - to try and disguise the serve. I think the umpires need to realize this as well because I feel that disguising - within limits - is part and parcel of the game. Foot stomps were all the rage for the same reason, to disguise the sound of the ball hitting the rubber.

I agree the umpires were brave, but I also feel they were just implementing the rules blindly and not taking it to the next level to see if this sideways toss was actually affecting the serve or not.

Just my two cents - which might not be worth a lot considering I am no expert.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2018, 21:54 
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Ranger-man wrote:
Another thing that I think the umpire needs to keep an eye on is whether the ball was still moving sideways when struck or not. I felt that in Ma Long's case the toss was high enough to ensure that there was minimal sideways momentum when he struck the ball. In the other cases here, I am not so sure.

Ma Long was faulted because the ball wasn't tossed the minimum distance.


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PostPosted: 02 Apr 2018, 07:16 
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According to the rules and handbook for officials, it is not up to the umpire to determine whether a particular illegal part of a serve is giving the server an advantage. In practice, particularly at the lower levels some will do this.

At the levels of pro tour tournaments, all the players should know and abide by the rules - then I woke up.

I have been instructed in the past to "not enforce particularly technical rules and let the game flow".

When there is only one umpire, should they rule illegal a forehand serve where the server is turned away from them and they can't see the actual ball contact? By the rules they should as they cannot determine that all requirements of a good serve have been followed, let alone whether the receiver can see the ball the entire time between the start of the toss to contact. Remember that the rules state that it is up to the player to ensure that the umpire can determine that all the requirements of a good serve have been followed.

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PostPosted: 03 Apr 2018, 06:10 
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Ranger-man wrote:
I think there needs to be a clearer definition of what constitutes "sideways" based on whether it is sideways enough to actually impact the spin that is being imparted on the ball. If the toss is not really effecting the spin that is being imparted on the ball I think we can let it go. I feel the same toss can be legal on one serve and illegal on another serve, by the same player based on the direction of the blade and the amount of sideways movement of the ball.

Another thing that I think the umpire needs to keep an eye on is whether the ball was still moving sideways when struck or not. I felt that in Ma Long's case the toss was high enough to ensure that there was minimal sideways momentum when he struck the ball. In the other cases here, I am not so sure.

I think it also boils down to the coaches who tend to encourage their proteges to bend the rules as much as possible to gain any advantage. It is quite obvious that the inwards toss is the problem, I don't think players ever toss it away from themselves, so I feel it is not so much the sideways momentum that they are looking for as much as concealment - trying to serve as close to the body and behind the tossing arm as possible - to try and disguise the serve. I think the umpires need to realize this as well because I feel that disguising - within limits - is part and parcel of the game. Foot stomps were all the rage for the same reason, to disguise the sound of the ball hitting the rubber.

I agree the umpires were brave, but I also feel they were just implementing the rules blindly and not taking it to the next level to see if this sideways toss was actually affecting the serve or not.

Just my two cents - which might not be worth a lot considering I am no expert.

.......,.......great answer!!!! It seems the illegal servings are a combination of hiding and tossing the ball sideways.Sometimes it is just either hiding the ball or sideways tossing..... Just ask why some people toss the ball sideways....answer: serve as close as possible near the net .....sometimes the illegality is so obvious... I understand some umpires want the game to flow and permit some minor illegalities..... however, the problem is when the players base their tactics on illegal serves.......in fact ,this weekend I will be playing against an opponent who usually hides his serves and gains advantage from them.....


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