OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 28 Mar 2024, 18:44


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2012, 00:11 
Offline
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2007, 12:57
Posts: 5772
Location: USA
Has thanked: 128 times
Been thanked: 248 times
Blade: Juic Hinoki One Ply
FH: Tibhar 5Q
BH: Scandal
I use Dr Evil, Pogo and other pips to make some good chop serves. That has nothing to do with the ball rolling on the blade. Why do you think it rolls on pips? Did you try cleaning the rubber and looking for marks?


Top
 Profile  
 


PostPosted: 02 Jun 2012, 00:18 
Offline
Modern Chiseler.
Modern Chiseler.
User avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 06:49
Posts: 11148
Location: USA
Has thanked: 572 times
Been thanked: 578 times
Blade: WRM Gokushu2
FH: S&T Secret Flow 1mm
BH: S&T Monkey ox
so_devo wrote:
I do agree with hookshot that there is little or no roll of the ball across the bat, except one notable exception; short pimples can achieve spinny underspin with this method (my doubles partner uses Dr Evil and can absolutely load his short chop serves).

What blade does your doubles partner use? I remember noting that a number of his serves being put into the net on that video you posted.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out.
| My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2012, 00:21 
Offline
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2007, 12:57
Posts: 5772
Location: USA
Has thanked: 128 times
Been thanked: 248 times
Blade: Juic Hinoki One Ply
FH: Tibhar 5Q
BH: Scandal
As far as hitting on the leading edge or trailing edge "on purpose" while looping, I would have to see it. I have checked my coaches bats, students bats, other players bats and the contact area is always centered. On control loopers it is nearer the handle, some loopers nearer the tip. Some may think they can hit nearer the edge but I would like to see them do it in normal play. Yes, hitting near one edge can be done while serving when you have full control. Like to see you do it when trying to counter loop against me. And dont just "think" you can do it, use the method for looking for a rolling ball, check the marks left on a clean rubber.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2012, 01:04 
Offline
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2007, 12:57
Posts: 5772
Location: USA
Has thanked: 128 times
Been thanked: 248 times
Blade: Juic Hinoki One Ply
FH: Tibhar 5Q
BH: Scandal
If you and your partner counter loop 20 balls under controlled conditions at say 80% power, then you check the pattern of marks on the rubber, how big do you think the group size will be?
I bet you it will be at least 3 inches in diameter with some wild ones outside that.
That means you could move the group about 1 1/2 inch to an edge and only the wild ones would miss the bat. However, if you try to move the center of the group to 1 inch from the edge, about 1/4 of the balls will miss the blade.
I gave that 3 inch group size under controlled countering. In a match, that size will be even larger. I check the pattern size all the time on myself, students, other players so if you think you can make a one inch group, go for it. Since the sweetspot is over 3 inches dia on most bats, you need to have your group outside the sweetspot to make a difference on dwell. That gives you 1 1/2 inch to put your group in. You will need a one inch group to stay inside the 1 1/2" and leave a 1/4" safty margim. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2012, 01:08 
Offline
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
User avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2007, 14:36
Posts: 5293
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 214 times
Blade: Donic Persson Power Play
FH: Donic Bluestorm Z3
BH: Tibhar Aurus Soft
C'Mon Hookshot, ask them if they feel lucky.

We wanna hear it from you big guy.

Absolute baloney that the ball rolls accross the rubber on a loop. At best, you will get a slight oval if your racket speed is high enough and you are brushing. It is too easy to wipe the rubber and look at it after a couple loops. Same for serving. Play in a dusty place, wipe rubber, and serve 25 balls. Look where the marks are. Sometimes, when my timing is too late, my marks are close to the leading edge. I get teh same speed and spin, but I almost missed the serve when I struck it there. Spin on serve is a function of the bat speed at impact and how you struck the ball, period.

_________________
Goof-off chopping bat
Gambler All Rosewood
Aurus Soft / Gambler GXL .6 sponge

Status - Out of Business Janitor/Babysitter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2012, 01:14 
Offline
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2007, 12:57
Posts: 5772
Location: USA
Has thanked: 128 times
Been thanked: 248 times
Blade: Juic Hinoki One Ply
FH: Tibhar 5Q
BH: Scandal
Der, :clap: :up:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2012, 01:24 
Offline
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
User avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2007, 14:36
Posts: 5293
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 214 times
Blade: Donic Persson Power Play
FH: Donic Bluestorm Z3
BH: Tibhar Aurus Soft
I get the arguement that impacting the ball on serve near your thumb where racket speed is less contributes to ease in making low spin/no spin serves. I get the arguement that impacting the ball on serve near the tip where bat speed is higher gets you more spin. Schlager says this as well, but in his vid, he tells you that it is a very low percentage thing to try serving with that part of the bat.

As for spin or power on loops, I do not lack any of that. It is not so much where on hte bat I impact the ball. I am an amature player, no pro, but I can amp up either spin and speed or both, no problem. it is a function of being in position, getting down, using the right swing plane, timing and using the whole body together. Where ball hits on racket makes no difference. Hopefully, i hit the sweet spot most of the time, sometimes, my positioning and ability to setup is not optimal and I hit shots under pressure, so maybe I miss sweet spot sometimes.

_________________
Goof-off chopping bat
Gambler All Rosewood
Aurus Soft / Gambler GXL .6 sponge

Status - Out of Business Janitor/Babysitter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2012, 01:24 
Offline
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
User avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2007, 14:36
Posts: 5293
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 214 times
Blade: Donic Persson Power Play
FH: Donic Bluestorm Z3
BH: Tibhar Aurus Soft
Hookshot, I am still waiting for you to ask peoples if they feel lucky.

_________________
Goof-off chopping bat
Gambler All Rosewood
Aurus Soft / Gambler GXL .6 sponge

Status - Out of Business Janitor/Babysitter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2012, 01:41 
Offline
Blockhead
Blockhead
User avatar

Joined: 07 Jan 2009, 19:20
Posts: 2163
Location: UK
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 162 times
Blade: Timo Boll ALC ST
FH: Tibhar MXP max
BH: Tibhar FXS 1.8
mynamenotbob wrote:
so_devo wrote:
I do agree with hookshot that there is little or no roll of the ball across the bat, except one notable exception; short pimples can achieve spinny underspin with this method (my doubles partner uses Dr Evil and can absolutely load his short chop serves).

What blade does your doubles partner use? I remember noting that a number of his serves being put into the net on that video you posted.


It is a very cheap, slow, premade blade that came from a department store then got the rubbers removed. 2 for £5 apparently, one still at home as a spare.

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2012, 01:45 
Offline
Blockhead
Blockhead
User avatar

Joined: 07 Jan 2009, 19:20
Posts: 2163
Location: UK
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 162 times
Blade: Timo Boll ALC ST
FH: Tibhar MXP max
BH: Tibhar FXS 1.8
hookshot wrote:
I use Dr Evil, Pogo and other pips to make some good chop serves. That has nothing to do with the ball rolling on the blade. Why do you think it rolls on pips? Did you try cleaning the rubber and looking for marks?


I have Dr evil on my hardbat and have this perception, especially as the contact time seems very long. I think I remember a post by Baal about it. I will try a new ball on a clean bat and try.

I'm not saying it rolls far ......

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2012, 01:49 
Offline
Blockhead
Blockhead
User avatar

Joined: 07 Jan 2009, 19:20
Posts: 2163
Location: UK
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 162 times
Blade: Timo Boll ALC ST
FH: Tibhar MXP max
BH: Tibhar FXS 1.8
Der_Echte wrote:
Absolute baloney that the ball rolls accross the rubber on a loop.


Der, I don't think anyone suggested it did on a loop..... just a debate about serves

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2012, 02:17 
Offline
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2007, 12:57
Posts: 5772
Location: USA
Has thanked: 128 times
Been thanked: 248 times
Blade: Juic Hinoki One Ply
FH: Tibhar 5Q
BH: Scandal
Yes, this thread is about serves but typically, the ones that think the ball rolls on a serve also think it rolls on chops and loops. There has been discussion before about rolling on loops and chops. There are many that believe that including one very high level coach I know of. I made the challenge of using a "Little" talc or baby powder to see the marks. One guy sent me a pic by PM of a black rubber with about 20 lines accross the whole blade. They all started withen 1/4" of the edge of the blade and ran off the other side. I wont give his name. LOL.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2012, 02:52 
Offline
Modern Chiseler.
Modern Chiseler.
User avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 06:49
Posts: 11148
Location: USA
Has thanked: 572 times
Been thanked: 578 times
Blade: WRM Gokushu2
FH: S&T Secret Flow 1mm
BH: S&T Monkey ox
In Germany, long pippers have a serve called a "Rollaufschlag" or roll serve where the ball rolls diagonally across the blade face. I imagine this would work with Dr. Evil also. But it's more of a deception serve than heavy underspin.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out.
| My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2012, 02:57 
Offline
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2007, 12:57
Posts: 5772
Location: USA
Has thanked: 128 times
Been thanked: 248 times
Blade: Juic Hinoki One Ply
FH: Tibhar 5Q
BH: Scandal
I am waiting for the pics. ;)

If I get time, I will try this with LPs. I should have some LP with sponge and OX I can try. Maybe it works but I do not think it will roll with OX SP.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2012, 03:35 
Offline
Blockhead
Blockhead
User avatar

Joined: 07 Jan 2009, 19:20
Posts: 2163
Location: UK
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 162 times
Blade: Timo Boll ALC ST
FH: Tibhar MXP max
BH: Tibhar FXS 1.8
hookshot wrote:
I am waiting for the pics. ;)

If I get time, I will try this with LPs. I should have some LP with sponge and OX I can try. Maybe it works but I do not think it will roll with OX SP.


I like the idea of hard evidence. I will do this serving experiment with inverted, ox sp and ox lp. Right or wrong I will post. May take me a week or so though.

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group