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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2014, 19:21 
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rodderz wrote:
just thinking about this and bat angle is also important, living the hard life inside a table tennis shop , I show people every day the ghost serve
and most just don't get the blade angle needed


I found not many people get it either, maybe it seems unnatural to hit a ball upside down, I don't know..

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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2014, 20:49 
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I think Ovcharov is a good guy to study for serves. Not only is he very creative but also he generally has has a generous backswing and, on the BH serve at least, really whips into the ball.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDZEOxgQQH8


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2014, 21:23 
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That's a good video, I like his late change of angle to make a no spinner. Might try that!.

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PostPosted: 21 Feb 2014, 01:48 
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Ovchirovs bh serves are awesome. It's interesting to not how much core muscles he uses with that set of serves.

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PostPosted: 21 Feb 2014, 14:59 
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Thus far, the attempt has been a complete failure.

I've been trying a twiddled to inverted backhand short cross corner under/sideunder/side spin serve like Dan Seemiller uses. But its very rarely successful. I'm having trouble getting them spinny, getting them short and not able to attack the returns and not doing well chopping them either.

I've also been trying an inverted forehand sidespin cross side to drop off way to the person's forehand side up near the net, but its not reliable enough. I don't really know anyone doing a serve like this to see what I'm doing wrong or copy.

I'm not coordinated enough to do pendulum serves like Timo Boll, and that eliminates so many of the lefty serves.

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PostPosted: 21 Feb 2014, 15:31 
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At first don't try to serve them short - dont even try to get them on the table! Your only aim should be to get maximum batspeed and spin. Once you get the spin dont slow your swing down but rather hit the ball finer and finer until it is short enough and you have good control over it. If you initially try top get them short you will most likely slow your batspeed down resulting in minimal spin.


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PostPosted: 21 Feb 2014, 17:14 
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Serve them into the sofa like me!. Maximum effort until your wrist gets the power.

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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2014, 00:51 
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Quote:
USATT Tip of the Day - Serve Violently!

BY DAN SEEMILLER | AUG. 20, 2013, 9 A.M. (ET)

Many players, when serving, either serve with a weak motion and get very little spin, or use a somewhat fast motion, and get only a decent amount of spin. However, if you want to get real spin on the ball, you have to think of the serve as a "violent" motion.

Think of it this way. If you want the ball to spin at 100mph, you need to get your racket moving at 100mph. You can’t do that by pitter-pattering around – you have to really stroke it – and that means getting "violent." After a good session practicing your serve, you should be sweating from the effort.

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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2014, 00:55 
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Good post MNNB.


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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2014, 00:59 
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Yes, Dan's backhand underspin short serve is one of the ones I'm trying to copy/learn that really needs to have a lot more spin to be effective. And yes, I'm putting a lot of effort into each serve.

I'm still trying. Maybe it will just take a lot of time and effort before they improve enough to be useful. Nothing worth doing comes easy, me thinks.

I also ordered a sheet of Haifu Blue Whale II Factory Tuned Red Soft 2.0 to see if the tacky rubber does a better job. Its not that expensive.

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2014, 02:35 
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fleetwood999 wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
Use a tacky rubber.


Disagree - Tacky rubber may give a bit more spin from the same old slow contact, but I don't believe tacky rubber will
"improve racket speed" which is the subject of this thread.
If anything it is likely to reduce racket speed since tacky rubber is most often heavier Chinese rubber.


Looking back, I think you have this right. I tried a few tacky rubbers, and I really did get lots of spin, but they were all quite heavy, and I found that I wasn't able to swing the heavy paddle fast enough to attack against 1500 or 1600+ players, which reduced an important dimension of my game.

So I went back to the lighter, less tacky rubber and then took a little slower blade and optimized the blade and head to reduce size where non-functional, and as a result, significantly reduce weight by almost 20 grams vs with the tacky rubber. The result was quite good. It took a few weeks to readjust, but I am definitely able to move the paddle faster, both to get to the ball and hitting it. I found that I can chop just as well with pips on backhand, but my attacks on both sides are much quicker, and my racket speed on forehand chops is better so I'm no longer popping up the ball when chopping spinny loops. My racket speed is improved on the serves, so they are spinning quite well, maybe a little less than with the tacky rubber, but the pluses outweigh the minuses unless I can find a way to cut another 15+ grams off the heavier tacky rubber paddle.

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2014, 03:20 
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You do not need to improve racket speed (imo) you just need to learn how to hit the ball at different parts of the racket to VARY THE SPEED (and thus the spin)!!! (I can't believe no one has suggested this).

Simple underspin serve-Learn to hit the ball close to the handle, middle of the rubber and end of rubber away from the handle. This will work for anyone who practices it. It will allow enough spin variation that it does not really matter that your serves are not really spinny.

Work the same principle with topspin and side spin variations.


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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2014, 04:35 
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Yes, I admit, I can't even tell you where on the blade I WANT to hit the ball for any given serve, let alone where I actually DO hit it.

Gotta try harder...

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2014, 18:17 
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You don't really need to optimize the rubber for serves since as set piece shot it's something you can practice until the ball starts biting on the rubber. The previous advice to swing fast is as apropos here as it is for loops.

Also, the Hurricane/Skyline rubbers shouldn't be heavy, but the problem is that they tend to be slow for looping away from the table. It's better boosted but that might not be something you want.

> You do not need to improve racket speed (imo) you just need to learn how to hit the ball at different parts of the racket to VARY THE SPEED (and thus the spin)!!! (I can't believe no one has suggested this).

Perhaps for higher level serves, but sound basic technique takes precedence over modest improvements.


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PostPosted: 13 Oct 2014, 00:20 
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rodderz wrote:
just thinking about this and bat angle is also important, living the hard life inside a table tennis shop , I show people every day the ghost serve
and most just don't get the blade angle needed


Explain? This is something I want to learn to do.

Iskandar


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