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Can you click while serving?
https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=32657		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  QuibblesNBits [ 23 Mar 2018, 16:24 ]
Post subject:  Can you click while serving?
I know many players stomp while serving, but I was looking through the official rules and I didn't see anything about vocalizations being illegal during service (or play in general). If one can make a loud clicking noise with one's tongue at the moment of contact one could easily disguise the sound of contact without needing to stomp if one uses a different method of weight transfer than said stomp method or is performing a serve like the forehand tomahawk where one is crouching during the motion. Is there some regulation I don't know about that outlaws such a clicking strategy or am I free to start annoying everyone I play with? ^.^
Author:  Silver [ 23 Mar 2018, 16:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you click while serving?
try it. they may pick you up under the distraction/gain unfair advantage misdemeanor rule but then again maybe not. the opponent may simply call a let a few times too (trying to talk?)
Author:  QuibblesNBits [ 23 Mar 2018, 17:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you click while serving?
Thanks for your reply! Could you refer me to the rule numbers/sub-headings to which you are referring. :)
Author:  haggisv [ 23 Mar 2018, 18:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you click while serving?
Here are the rules, 2.9.2.4 is the applicable one:
2.9.2 Play may be interrupted

2.9.2.1 to correct an error in the order of serving, receiving or ends;

2.9.2.2 to introduce the expedite system;

2.9.2.3 to warn or penalise a player or adviser;

2.9.2.4 because the conditions of play are disturbed in a way which could affect the outcome of the rally.

So if the umpire believed the sound can affect the outcome, they can call a let, or a warning. The rules is open to their interpretation, and the ruling of an umpire (or referee if there is one) is final.
Author:  0x556c69 [ 23 Mar 2018, 20:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you click while serving?
And of course there are the rules about fairness (ITTF Handbook Chapter 3). Strictly speaking those apply only to international competitions, but at least in Germay they are always included. I'm sure there are similar laws for other national associations:

3.5.2 Misbehaviour
3.5.2.1 Players and coaches or other advisers shall refrain from behaviour that may unfairly affect an opponent, offend spectators or bring the sport into disrepute, such as abusive language, deliberately breaking the ball or hitting it out of the playing area, kicking the table or surrounds and disrespect of match officials.
...
3.5.3 Good Presentation
3.5.3.1 Players, coaches and officials shall uphold the object of good presentation of the sport and safeguard its integrity by refraining from any attempt to influence the elements of a competition in a manner contrary to sporting ethics:
...
Author:  Japsican [ 23 Mar 2018, 22:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you click while serving?
more than half of every player over 1500 stomp on serves. The higher you go the greater the percentage. It's so ubiquitous, yet I have literally never heard someone call a let due to a foot stomp. Never. Niet. It's another rule that exists and is almost never enforced.
Author:  keme [ 23 Mar 2018, 22:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you click while serving?
You may claim that the foot stomp is a part of the serve movement, and you lose the rhythm of your stroke if you have to do it silently. I won't believe you, but I won't start an argument over it.

Oral noise, on the other hand, is most certainly not a vital part of your serve movement. Intentional disturbance, commands a let and a warning, and point loss if repeated. Rules already quoted above.

In Tennis, the force required for a good serve may explain groaning and even a holler. In TT I don't think so...
Author:  GMan4911 [ 23 Mar 2018, 22:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you click while serving?
At times, sudden noise from players at other tables have me wanting to call let. It would probably be difficult for me to play if Harimoto played at our club. :D
Author:  Japsican [ 23 Mar 2018, 22:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you click while serving?
Sometimes I yell "Kelly Clarkson!!!" at the moment of contact. I've never had a complaint.
Author:  QuibblesNBits [ 23 Mar 2018, 22:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you click while serving?
Thx everyone for your input! You know, I saw all those rules and never once thought that they may apply to a clicking noise, hahah. Silly me, I suppose! I think it's because I don't consider it aggressive or unbecoming behavior that would indicate the bad sportsmanship referenced in the latter set of rules. Nor do I see any distinction between the behavior of clicking and that of stomping since all other shots are taken without a stomp and it is clear both from the history of the game and from the results of the act of stomping that it has no other purpose than to generate noise to mask the sound of contact. Would it not be just as reasonable (to use the word quite loosely) that I use the clicking as a timing mechanism and would lose my timing without it just as much as another player would lose their rhythm without their stomp? ;)
Author:  igorponger [ 24 Mar 2018, 02:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you click while serving?
BAD BEHAVIOUR.



Making noise by the receiver is always deemed a bad behaviour and should be penalized, anyway.
Look here, horvatian Gachina protested vigorously against WeiXing creaking his feet on floor, and the umpire granted the server's protest readely. .
Author:  Japsican [ 24 Mar 2018, 02:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you click while serving?
QuibblesNBits wrote:
Thx everyone for your input! You know, I saw all those rules and never once thought that they may apply to a clicking noise, hahah. Silly me, I suppose! I think it's because I don't consider it aggressive or unbecoming behavior that would indicate the bad sportsmanship referenced in the latter set of rules. Nor do I see any distinction between the behavior of clicking and that of stomping since all other shots are taken without a stomp and it is clear both from the history of the game and from the results of the act of stomping that it has no other purpose than to generate noise to mask the sound of contact. Would it not be just as reasonable (to use the word quite loosely) that I use the clicking as a timing mechanism and would lose my timing without it just as much as another player would lose their rhythm without their stomp? ;)

Well, technically, I think foot stomping is against the rule, just unenforced. And the clicking should be against the rule. However, it too would be subject to the same lack of enforcement. Essentially, anything that is unenforceable should just be legal IMO, because it penalizes the rule abiders. But a lot of people disagree with me on that.

Personally, I find it easier to put my energy into figuring out how to beat illegal serves rather than calling people out for illegal serves (foot stomps included).
Author:  Japsican [ 24 Mar 2018, 02:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you click while serving?
igorponger wrote:
BAD BEHAVIOUR.



Making noise by the receiver is always deemed a bad behaviour and should be penalized, anyway.
Look here, horvatian Gachina protested vigorously against WeiXing creaking his feet on floor, and the umpire granted the server's protest readely. .

BTW, that isn't Chen Weixing. I think that Hou Yingchao
Author:  QuibblesNBits [ 24 Mar 2018, 04:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you click while serving?
For the record I'm like the world's cleanest/most apologetic player, hahaha. I just have this strange gift for imitating the sound of contact and I've often wondered if I'd be allowed to put it to any use. :)

I understand not stomping to distract your opponent while they serve and how that is bad behavior. But I don't think that addresses the idea of the server making a clicking noise instead of a stomp while serving. In fact, if anything, that video seems to support the idea that a stomp is widely considered as an allowable form of masking the noise of a serve given the dialogue in the video.
Author:  Retriever [ 24 Mar 2018, 08:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you click while serving?
Stamping the foot during serve was a lot more prevalent before the 2 colour rule for rubbers came in. When opponents had wildly different rubbers on each side of their bat, listening to the sound of the rubber hitting the ball was one way of telling which side was used. So servers would stamp their foot at the exact time of contact. Thus was foot stamping on serve was made illegal. With the 2 colour rule for rubber the foot stamping was no longer illegal per se, but, as previously explained, if it puts the opponent off then it can be ruled so.
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