OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 29 Mar 2024, 14:52


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 07:07 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 15 Jan 2018, 04:47
Posts: 981
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 238 times
Blade: Grubba all Plus
FH: Spinfire 1.5
BH: Bomb Talent OX


I have been shocked to see so many wrong services unpunished at the highest level ,especially, in Spain.The umpires do not seem to care , however, at lower levels, we can find umpires who are really brave enough to call out fouled serves. If the pros are unpunished as they should be, how do you feel as an amateur when an umpire calls out a fouled serve???

what's your experience?


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 11:07 
Offline
Goes to 11
Goes to 11
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014, 20:27
Posts: 10671
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1384 times
CHARMANDER DEFENDER wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qOY6wk98eI

I have been shocked to see so many wrong services unpunished at the highest level ,especially, in Spain.The umpires do not seem to care , however, at lower levels, we can find umpires who are really brave enough to call out fouled serves. If the pros are unpunished as they should be, how do you feel as an amateur when an umpire calls out a fouled serve???

what's your experience?


Can't even remember ever having an umpired match.. :lol:

Iskandar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2018, 21:32 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 15 Jan 2018, 04:47
Posts: 981
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 238 times
Blade: Grubba all Plus
FH: Spinfire 1.5
BH: Bomb Talent OX
Well,in fact,I do have umpired matches both in the league and in tournaments. I haven't had any calls for wrong services , however, I have had and still have ,many players feeding wrong services.Providing they are not a decisive factor in the match , I do not protest....some players based their tactics on wrong services.....This must be penalised,let alone the pros.....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2018, 19:09 
Online
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 33337
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 2741 times
Been thanked: 1548 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dr N Troublemaker OX
I think it's good to see the rules enforced, but I don't like to see it ruin a game.

PS Please don't post your topic title in all CAPITAL letters... it's the equivalent of shouting, which I'm sure is not your intention. ;)

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2018, 21:06 
Offline
Dances with Spammers
Dances with Spammers
User avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 2008, 00:22
Posts: 1197
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 25 times
Blade: Darker Speed 90 Jpen
FH: Dawei Inspirit Quattro UL
I think there needs to be a clearer definition of what constitutes "sideways" based on whether it is sideways enough to actually impact the spin that is being imparted on the ball. If the toss is not really effecting the spin that is being imparted on the ball I think we can let it go. I feel the same toss can be legal on one serve and illegal on another serve, by the same player based on the direction of the blade and the amount of sideways movement of the ball.

Another thing that I think the umpire needs to keep an eye on is whether the ball was still moving sideways when struck or not. I felt that in Ma Long's case the toss was high enough to ensure that there was minimal sideways momentum when he struck the ball. In the other cases here, I am not so sure.

I think it also boils down to the coaches who tend to encourage their proteges to bend the rules as much as possible to gain any advantage. It is quite obvious that the inwards toss is the problem, I don't think players ever toss it away from themselves, so I feel it is not so much the sideways momentum that they are looking for as much as concealment - trying to serve as close to the body and behind the tossing arm as possible - to try and disguise the serve. I think the umpires need to realize this as well because I feel that disguising - within limits - is part and parcel of the game. Foot stomps were all the rage for the same reason, to disguise the sound of the ball hitting the rubber.

I agree the umpires were brave, but I also feel they were just implementing the rules blindly and not taking it to the next level to see if this sideways toss was actually affecting the serve or not.

Just my two cents - which might not be worth a lot considering I am no expert.

_________________
1-ply Hinoki Club
Violin/Acoustic Clan
Recreational/Club Player
Local Press Club (Journalists) Champion

The speed of a Rhino and the power of a Gazelle!!!!
http://xtrariter.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2018, 21:54 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 16 Sep 2012, 19:52
Posts: 321
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 69 times
Blade: OSP Ultimate II
FH: Xiom Ω VII Asia Max
BH: Xiom Ω VII Asia Max
Ranger-man wrote:
Another thing that I think the umpire needs to keep an eye on is whether the ball was still moving sideways when struck or not. I felt that in Ma Long's case the toss was high enough to ensure that there was minimal sideways momentum when he struck the ball. In the other cases here, I am not so sure.

Ma Long was faulted because the ball wasn't tossed the minimum distance.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2018, 07:16 
Offline
Bytes worse than his Bark
Bytes worse than his Bark
User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 12:25
Posts: 1692
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 111 times
Been thanked: 375 times
Blade: OldNittaku Carbon
FH: Tenergy 05 Hard
BH: Yasaka Shining Dragon max
According to the rules and handbook for officials, it is not up to the umpire to determine whether a particular illegal part of a serve is giving the server an advantage. In practice, particularly at the lower levels some will do this.

At the levels of pro tour tournaments, all the players should know and abide by the rules - then I woke up.

I have been instructed in the past to "not enforce particularly technical rules and let the game flow".

When there is only one umpire, should they rule illegal a forehand serve where the server is turned away from them and they can't see the actual ball contact? By the rules they should as they cannot determine that all requirements of a good serve have been followed, let alone whether the receiver can see the ball the entire time between the start of the toss to contact. Remember that the rules state that it is up to the player to ensure that the umpire can determine that all the requirements of a good serve have been followed.

_________________
Retriever (sometimes golden, but often leaden)
Moderator, Inverted Retriever Technique sub-forum - http://ooakforum.com/viewforum.php?f=74


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2018, 06:10 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 15 Jan 2018, 04:47
Posts: 981
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 238 times
Blade: Grubba all Plus
FH: Spinfire 1.5
BH: Bomb Talent OX
Ranger-man wrote:
I think there needs to be a clearer definition of what constitutes "sideways" based on whether it is sideways enough to actually impact the spin that is being imparted on the ball. If the toss is not really effecting the spin that is being imparted on the ball I think we can let it go. I feel the same toss can be legal on one serve and illegal on another serve, by the same player based on the direction of the blade and the amount of sideways movement of the ball.

Another thing that I think the umpire needs to keep an eye on is whether the ball was still moving sideways when struck or not. I felt that in Ma Long's case the toss was high enough to ensure that there was minimal sideways momentum when he struck the ball. In the other cases here, I am not so sure.

I think it also boils down to the coaches who tend to encourage their proteges to bend the rules as much as possible to gain any advantage. It is quite obvious that the inwards toss is the problem, I don't think players ever toss it away from themselves, so I feel it is not so much the sideways momentum that they are looking for as much as concealment - trying to serve as close to the body and behind the tossing arm as possible - to try and disguise the serve. I think the umpires need to realize this as well because I feel that disguising - within limits - is part and parcel of the game. Foot stomps were all the rage for the same reason, to disguise the sound of the ball hitting the rubber.

I agree the umpires were brave, but I also feel they were just implementing the rules blindly and not taking it to the next level to see if this sideways toss was actually affecting the serve or not.

Just my two cents - which might not be worth a lot considering I am no expert.

.......,.......great answer!!!! It seems the illegal servings are a combination of hiding and tossing the ball sideways.Sometimes it is just either hiding the ball or sideways tossing..... Just ask why some people toss the ball sideways....answer: serve as close as possible near the net .....sometimes the illegality is so obvious... I understand some umpires want the game to flow and permit some minor illegalities..... however, the problem is when the players base their tactics on illegal serves.......in fact ,this weekend I will be playing against an opponent who usually hides his serves and gains advantage from them.....


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 




All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group