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PostPosted: 11 Oct 2013, 19:05 
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Below is a link an article by Matt Hetherington detailing tactics players commonly use against antispin (and also long pimples). http://www.tabletennismaster.com/profil ... g-antispin

Far and away, the #1 tactic that is commonly used at the sub-2000 level is the

Quote:
No Spin Tactic: Playing with no spin means you take away a weapon of an antispin player. By giving them nothing, they can give you nothing in return. Using no spin serves and no spin pushes and even loops with a bit more lobbiness to them gives the anti player nothing to use in return, it makes it easier for you to return all the balls and pick the right ball to attack and renders the antispin player harmless.

The other two tactics discussed in the article are 1) persistent control looping, and 2) against long range defenders alternate loops and touch push.

Anyway I thought it would be good to discuss ways to thwart these tactics.

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PostPosted: 11 Oct 2013, 20:07 
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Against sub 2000 standard if you are not comfortable against anti or LP then the no spin tactic is not bad, especially if the opponent can't attack very well. I tend to use a mixture of persistent control looping and fast looping. At the end of the day it is still no honeymoon for a anti/LP player to block deep spinny loops and I figure I will get more loops on than they will blocks. Against anti choppers I just loop all the time because anti is so easy to play against. Against very good LP choppers I occasionally push if they can chop very heavy. If I do push I invariably push deep in order to keep them back from the table.


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PostPosted: 11 Oct 2013, 21:25 
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> learn to twiddle and change the pace of the return - if someone fires in a kicking topspin serve to what they think is anti/ LP, the change in pace from the inverted side messes up timing
> play to the body, not the power zones
> encourage short returns by serving short
> learn to swipe no-spin balls, to body or very short to force attacker in and out


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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2013, 08:13 
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PRW wrote:
> learn to twiddle and change the pace of the return - if someone fires in a kicking topspin serve to what they think is anti/ LP, the change in pace from the inverted side messes up timing
> play to the body, not the power zones
> encourage short returns by serving short
> learn to swipe no-spin balls, to body or very short to force attacker in and out

Excellent tips PRW! :up: :up: :up:

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2013, 18:21 
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Regarding the no-spin tactic, the anti or LP players has some control over this when they're serving as they can put a spinny ball into play from the get-go. Also inverted players can have a lot of problems with no-spin as well, so the sword cuts both ways.

The other thing is not all antis have the same weaknesses. For example, Yasaka Super Anti can easily attack no-spin. So this article is far from the definitive guide to defeating anti players.

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2013, 22:47 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
Regarding the no-spin tactic, the anti or LP players has some control over this when they're serving as they can put a spinny ball into play from the get-go. Also inverted players can have a lot of problems with no-spin as well, so the sword cuts both ways.

The other thing is not all antis have the same weaknesses. For example, Yasaka Super Anti can easily attack no-spin. So this article is far from the definitive guide to defeating anti players.


I agree with your thoughts. If I play an anti-player my first technique is to serve no spin to their anti side or play a no or low spin shot to their anti side as early in the point as possible. Then I want to attack the next ball and win the point. What I do NOT want my anti opponent to do is attack with their anti and give me a fast, no spin shot back. So IMO attacking with your anti is the best technique against the no spin strategy. I just have no idea HOW one executes that strategy.


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PostPosted: 13 Oct 2013, 00:56 
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vanjr wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
Regarding the no-spin tactic, the anti or LP players has some control over this when they're serving as they can put a spinny ball into play from the get-go. Also inverted players can have a lot of problems with no-spin as well, so the sword cuts both ways.

The other thing is not all antis have the same weaknesses. For example, Yasaka Super Anti can easily attack no-spin. So this article is far from the definitive guide to defeating anti players.


I agree with your thoughts. If I play an anti-player my first technique is to serve no spin to their anti side or play a no or low spin shot to their anti side as early in the point as possible. Then I want to attack the next ball and win the point. What I do NOT want my anti opponent to do is attack with their anti and give me a fast, no spin shot back. So IMO attacking with your anti is the best technique against the no spin strategy. I just have no idea HOW one executes that strategy.


I am with you in this. If you give a skilled anti player a long dead ball, some of these are very skilled at sending back a medium fast no spin ball to you uncomfortable zone. Often, you are surprised at this ball and fail to successfully counter it. You give one of these skilled anti operators a long ball, they make a good shot just like a good inverted player does with placement and just enough pace to make it fast and slow enough to land it consistently. If that ball is at your crossover and you are in surprise mode, you can say goodbye to the point. If it comes to your FH, you learn to make a quality topspin easy enough.

how do you stop this fastish knuckle to your uncomfortable zone? A few ways.

1) keep the ball short and low. That will make the anti player slow down his shot and give you more time. Problem is, the anti player has found a ball that you will not give him short. It could be a fast deep serve to your crossover, it could be a short no-spin you fail to flick and push deep. Whatever, opponent found a way to make you keep giving it to him long.

2) Give the ball with a little pace to his crossover. That will make opponent forget about giving you that troublesome ball and worry solely about just returning the ball on the table. You will then need to finish or be relentless. roblem is, the better anti player will not give you an easy ball for this. No one at a high level gives you easy chances unless they want you to do something specific.

3) Spin the daylights outta the ball. Spin heavy and watch your opponent crumble. he blocks it with inverted (without getting right up to it) and he plocks high or long/out. he tries to cover it with anti and you know what you are getting back, so you are ready go for the next shot.

4) Go for angles first. When you are able to get your opponent to move all over the place, they are not in a good position to get set and give you those troubling balls. Often, it is the anti player running you around first, but if you turn the tables on opponent, you are pulling the strings.

5) Speed it up, take the ball earlier or hit it with power a little further back. You take away time from the opponent, and they will suddenly give you less of those troublesome balls. Thing is, you are a lot more prone to miss doing this.

I have played vs Richard Dewitt twice in recent tourneys. His MarkV rubber is reputed to be very anti like. I do not know, it looks like oldish MarkV. Richard does, however, play a lot of shots with his MarkV with the same objectives as anti. He tries to give you a ball you feel uncomfortable attacking and choose a long push, whether poor quality or deep/fast. He stays close to the table, reads spin, pace, depth well and takes it early to send back a knuckle ball fast enough to trouble you, but slow enough to land high percentage. he targets your weak zones and can tell where you will fail on the next shot, whether it is an ill-advised attack, or you are simply not reacting well enough. He will get a lot of points from you while not physically working hard.

After losing a game or two, each match, I had to change the way I played. I was able to win a game each time by either moving him around, using very heavy spin, or going for the power loops where he wasn't expecting them.

Richard is a 2100+ level player who will not give it up easy, but you can score vs him if you choose the right ball or placement. He blocks great and usually one shot is not enough, unless you really fooled him on your placement. I got most of my points powerlooping his long serve to either corner faking him with body and going the other way. whenever I did that with a slow heavy ball, he got it back, but I could finish to a corner. He got a lot of balls back where he read my placement and made me pay for overcommitting to shots. He won a lot of points where I decided to play too safe.

How to apply this to a good anti player? Play your aggressive offensive game and look for somethings anti player does not do 100%.

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PostPosted: 07 Nov 2013, 05:22 
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I think Hetherington's article is about LP or anti that can make little or no spin on their own. Several anti's are either fast or spinny enough to chop a long no-spin ball back with enough spin and/or speed, staying low enough as well, to cause the opponent problems or force him to use good spin on his next ball, which can then be used against him. I have played often with anti (Tibhar Ellen Def) against SP attackers and the low spin was never the problem; the pace of their game was.
A no-spin serve that comes high enough (they nearly always do) can be attacked with anti; you can hit it straight/flat and quite hard and the ball will then skid, which is awkward for the opponent; this is effective even with the Ellen, which is among the slowest of the anti's, and therefore allows me to hit down the line, which is nearly always a winner. If the serve stays low, and comes deep, I chop it, cutting the backhand sideline close to the corner to make sure the opponent can't attack down the line; the opponent then has to loop.
Personally, I think quick attack is the best weapon against any defensive strategy or equipment. Feeding a defender no-spin equals thinking defense is all about spin-reversal, in my opinion. Actually, defense is more about variation, so counter-tactics should deal with that. Keeping up a high level of spin, which makes it difficult for the defender to vary his returns, is one such tactic. Keeping the pace high, achieving the same, is another. And another still is aiming at the body, where the defender can't return well, let alone vary. As a defender you have to prevent your opponent from using these tactics, or you will be in trouble.

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PostPosted: 07 Nov 2013, 08:44 
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haggisv wrote:
PRW wrote:
> learn to twiddle and change the pace of the return - if someone fires in a kicking topspin serve to what they think is anti/ LP, the change in pace from the inverted side messes up timing
> play to the body, not the power zones
> encourage short returns by serving short
> learn to swipe no-spin balls, to body or very short to force attacker in and out

Excellent tips PRW! :up: :up: :up:

Is this for the anti player or against the anti player?

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PostPosted: 07 Nov 2013, 08:50 
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One tactic is serving to their forehand , It just may work , Ive had a couple of occasions
where I was playing a Korean Lady with D Techs who does the swipe back then blasts the next one so I just took that away by serving to her forehand
and also the same tactic against a anti player who was used to everyone serving to his backhand

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PostPosted: 07 Nov 2013, 15:06 
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rodderz wrote:
haggisv wrote:
PRW wrote:
> learn to twiddle and change the pace of the return - if someone fires in a kicking topspin serve to what they think is anti/ LP, the change in pace from the inverted side messes up timing
> play to the body, not the power zones
> encourage short returns by serving short
> learn to swipe no-spin balls, to body or very short to force attacker in and out

Excellent tips PRW! :up: :up: :up:

Is this for the anti player or against the anti player?


Given it says learn to twiddle, that's a hint that its FOR the Anti player, I'd say ;)

But I could be wrong :lol:

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PostPosted: 18 Jun 2016, 22:04 
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I'll try to revive an old thread here (sorry)!
As an anti player, and someone who play against them, I'd say the most important thing is twiddling.
If they don't know which side the anti is on, then they'll play it safe, with slightly higher, slower, no spin balls, out of fear of missing. Another thing they'll try to do is play to your inverted, because
a) They know how inverted works.
b) They tend to think that because you have an anti, you are reliant (or at least stronger) on it, so they will try and take that away from you.

So, to wrap it up in two points:
1. Learn to twiddle, and play anti and inverted shots on both wings (forehand and backhand).
2. Be confident in your inverted game: a strong inverted game will mean playing it safe to you is in fact very dangerous!

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PostPosted: 19 Jun 2016, 07:55 
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Similar tactics to inverted for serve and attack. Serve heavy underspin early to establish your motion makes heavy, then pull out carpet with light almost no spin serves that look the same.

Change up depth... serve sudden and deep to body or bh corner. Sometimes several fast deep underspin right into their FH power zone.

Rally shots into body, hookshots right into wide FH, slap to bh.

Avoid starting with long dead serves. Establish heavy spin first.

Loop really heavy and slow. Go for power shot when they are there.

Allow ball to come into hitting zone more and hit hard down the line instead of crosscourt.

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