OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
Live Table Tennis Videos Table Tennis News Live OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 20 Oct 2017, 00:03


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2014, 09:35 
Offline
Joo Too
Joo Too
User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 18:31
Posts: 3177
Location: Dendermonde, Belgium
Has thanked: 800 times
Been thanked: 367 times
Blade: BTY Joo Se Hyuk ST
FH: DHS Hurricane 3-50 Soft R
BH: TSP Curl P1-R 1.5 B
I want to keep a short record in this topic about what I feel to be the differences between the XSF 40+/Nittaku Premium 40+ and the DHS seamed 40+ (and clones). I'll also mention comments of other players who used this ball and gave feedback about the differences.

First of all I find the DHS and clones to have a lower bounce than celluloid. The bounce is also inconsistent. They contain less spin and are slower. They also don't come through like celluloid. Finally the rubber grips this ball less and this makes the spin coming of LP less dangerous. I found these issues to be fixed with the XSF ball, except for less speed and spin (normal for a slightly bigger ball).

The following statements compare the XSF ball with the DHS & clones ball.

I tried the XSF ball against someone who also struggled with the DHS and clones: a young guy, inverted on FH, SP on BH. A controlled attacking player. His comments were that the XSF ball was more dangerous, meaning it contained more spin and the pips gave more disturbing effect in the meaning of more manipulation options.

I also tried the XSF ball against a middle aged defensive player using inverted on both sides. He stated the ball came through more and if this was the final product, he would be happy to play with it. He also said the DHS & clones were faster than the XSF ball, probably bcause the spin he could create was less.

I gave the ball to a spin oriented middle aged attacking player (two winged inverted) who played against an older allround/modern defensive player using LP on BH, inverted on FH. The latter stated the ball bounced higher. The DHS and clones skid more. He even felt the ball was bigger. The attacking player was convinced the DHS and clones weren't the final product. They often had an inconsistent bounce. This one didn't. Remarkably: the attacking player lost from the LP player, although this attacking player is very good against defense.

The remarks are quite consistent at the moment. Even the old fellow who hardly felt a difference between celluloid and DHS & clones now stated he felt something being different.

I ordered the Nittaku Premium 40+. I don't know when they will arrive.

Feel free to add your own experiences or those shared by your training partners/opponents in this thread, be it with the XSF, the Nittaku or the chinese seamed balls.

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!


Last edited by Lorre on 12 Dec 2014, 07:57, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: 12 Dec 2014, 06:22 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User

Joined: 16 Oct 2007, 13:44
Posts: 2906
Location: Houston
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 139 times
I have been saying many of the same things about XSF, so I am glad to see your comments. I have to say that I have not used them against a defender, and the one really good defender I know did not get much time with the ball. So I find your post very interesting. It is pretty much what I guessed, i.e. defenders will like it a lot.

You will find NP40+ to also come out more on the bounce. It may feel a bit more solid than XSF but it also has a nice high consistent bounce. It looks a little smaller, maybe an illusion more than reality. Some people say it feels heavier when in fact it is actually lighter, slightly. Not sure what causes that feeling (and some people correctly say it feels lighter). All in all, it is perfectly fine to play with. It breaks more and costs a lot more. It breaks very differently from a XSF and wears more rapidly. The XSF shatters into pieces catastrophically, but the NP40+ develops a little crack and is actually still quite playable with the crack, at least for awhile.

Oddly enough, given the choice now, I prefer to play with XSF over NP40+, but only by a small margin (partly it is a really bright white color), but factor in price and durability and there is a clear winner for me anyway.

_________________
Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2014, 07:48 
Offline
Joo Too
Joo Too
User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 18:31
Posts: 3177
Location: Dendermonde, Belgium
Has thanked: 800 times
Been thanked: 367 times
Blade: BTY Joo Se Hyuk ST
FH: DHS Hurricane 3-50 Soft R
BH: TSP Curl P1-R 1.5 B
I've trained this evening, but it was all with celluloid. So nothing new.

I'm having a small minor issue with the XSF. It develops little black/blue spots after being played for a while. It plays the same, though.

The XSF shatters indeed, Baal. But this was because my training partner stepped on it by accident. :lol: Didn't crack yet.

The club that playsd with celluloid (I play in one club with plastic, the other with celluloid) tried the DHS clones. They are available for training, but not many (today: none) played with these balls.

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2014, 16:45 
Offline
Iron Pips
Iron Pips
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2010, 22:07
Posts: 3449
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Has thanked: 514 times
Been thanked: 278 times
Blade: DMS Invictus
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 NEO
BH: DMS Diabolic 1,6 mm
I agree with feeling of XF seamless. It feels bigger, it bounces significant higher than Donic or Cornelliau (from DHS fabric). But I think at least Cornelliau can be more spinned and holds the spin better. But that can be a feeling bacause it is slower.

_________________
My blog: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Serving techniques and strategy section


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2014, 17:59 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 31481
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1489 times
Been thanked: 946 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dornenglanz OX
Def-attack wrote:
But I think at least Cornelliau can be more spinned and holds the spin better. But that can be a feeling bacause it is slower.

Yes I felt exactly the same with the DHS ball... glad there is someone else that got the same impression. :oops:

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Table Tennis Reviews / Articles | Table Guide | Robot Guide | Re-Impact Blades
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide | Novel way to glue OX pips


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2014, 18:40 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 02 Mar 2010, 19:16
Posts: 1400
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 62 times
haggisv wrote:
Def-attack wrote:
But I think at least Cornelliau can be more spinned and holds the spin better. But that can be a feeling bacause it is slower.

Yes I felt exactly the same with the DHS ball... glad there is someone else that got the same impression. :oops:


My experience is, indeed, you can spin the DHS seamed plastic balls more because it's slower, heavier and harder than the celluloid, XSF and Nittaku Premium Japan polyballs, BUT it takes more energy to do so. So in general, the amount of spin I've encountered from my opponents using the DHS seamed polyballs is lower than celluloid, with the sole exception of higher grade, physically powerful players. So the DHS polyballs help the strongest loopers and hurt all others.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Dec 2014, 08:50 
Offline
Joo Too
Joo Too
User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 18:31
Posts: 3177
Location: Dendermonde, Belgium
Has thanked: 800 times
Been thanked: 367 times
Blade: BTY Joo Se Hyuk ST
FH: DHS Hurricane 3-50 Soft R
BH: TSP Curl P1-R 1.5 B
Boy, did I have a frustrating evening with the Tibhar plastic balls! Not only did I have way many nets in my disadvantage (because of the low bounce of the ball?), but I also had an interesting experience I wanted to share.

I had a game against a lower-leveled topspin based player. In the first three sets he just laughed at my chopping game. He won 2 sets and I won 1 set closely. I felt like the ball was broken (the sound), so I switched the ball with a ball that was lying there after set 3 (same type of ball, though: Tibhar plastic). Whole of a sudden he just couldn't get anything right anymore. I said I switched the ball afterwards: he clearly didn't notice it.

Now: how can this be? Apart from the usual suspects (e.g. inconsistency of the lower leveld player, his mental toughness,...), I see two additional options that explain this kind of turnaround.

1) The ball was broken, but how do you notice this with the new ball?
2) If the ball wasn't broken, the two balls could have played totally different (spinwise and bouncewise).

Boy, it's frustrating to play with that kind of balls! But we have to: we play competition with them.

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Dec 2014, 16:59 
Offline
Iron Pips
Iron Pips
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2010, 22:07
Posts: 3449
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Has thanked: 514 times
Been thanked: 278 times
Blade: DMS Invictus
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 NEO
BH: DMS Diabolic 1,6 mm
Lorre, it is more importand with plastic than celluloid to test the ball before match (spinning it on the table). Some are fairly round, some wobbles very much. Of a bow with 6 plastics it happens that at least 3-4 of them wobbles a lot :(.
Also there can be other issues that makes them bounce low, like they are about to break (a weak spot somewhere on the ball).
This is indeed very frustrating!

_________________
My blog: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Serving techniques and strategy section


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2014, 07:40 
Offline
Joo Too
Joo Too
User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 18:31
Posts: 3177
Location: Dendermonde, Belgium
Has thanked: 800 times
Been thanked: 367 times
Blade: BTY Joo Se Hyuk ST
FH: DHS Hurricane 3-50 Soft R
BH: TSP Curl P1-R 1.5 B
Trained a bit with plastic tonight for about 45min (both the SHA and the XSF). The bounce of the XSF is definitely higher than that of the SHA. My team mate said the ball felt harder and seemed to be consistent (in bounce?).

I gave one to a player who plays in first national (the division below the highest in the country). He tried it for five minutes and said the XSF was a lot closer to celluloid than the other plastic balls (like Tibhar, SHA,...). I spoke him afterwards and he confirmed it was impossible to get decent spin with the DHS clones. He also struggles with his backhand punch when playing plastic.

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!


Last edited by Lorre on 20 Dec 2014, 20:03, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2014, 08:06 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User

Joined: 16 Oct 2007, 13:44
Posts: 2906
Location: Houston
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 139 times
Lorre wrote:
Trained a bit with plastic tonight for about 45min (both the SHA and the XSF). The bounce of the XSF is definitely higher than that of the SHA. My team mate said the ball felt harder.

I gave one to a player who plays in first national (the division below the highest in the country). He tried it for five minutes and said the XSF was a lot closer to celluloid than the other plastic balls (like Tibhar, SHA,...). I spoke him afterwards and he confirmed it was impossible to get decent spin with the DHS clones. He also struggles with his backhand punch when playing plastic.


Also if you check you will find that XSF balls are typically quite round compared to Chinese seamed plastic balls like the SHA. Personally I find it pretty appalling that Nittaku cheapens their brand by putting their name on such a crappy ball as the SHA. Their NP40+ is pretty good, though.

_________________
Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2014, 23:40 
Offline
Joo Too
Joo Too
User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 18:31
Posts: 3177
Location: Dendermonde, Belgium
Has thanked: 800 times
Been thanked: 367 times
Blade: BTY Joo Se Hyuk ST
FH: DHS Hurricane 3-50 Soft R
BH: TSP Curl P1-R 1.5 B
Baal wrote:
Also if you check you will find that XSF balls are typically quite round compared to Chinese seamed plastic balls like the SHA. Personally I find it pretty appalling that Nittaku cheapens their brand by putting their name on such a crappy ball as the SHA. Their NP40+ is pretty good, though.


Yes, that high-leveled player told me to do that. I just never have done it before, but it's quite easy to do, I guess (spin test on the table).

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2014, 01:23 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User

Joined: 16 Oct 2007, 13:44
Posts: 2906
Location: Houston
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 139 times
Lorre wrote:
Baal wrote:
Also if you check you will find that XSF balls are typically quite round compared to Chinese seamed plastic balls like the SHA. Personally I find it pretty appalling that Nittaku cheapens their brand by putting their name on such a crappy ball as the SHA. Their NP40+ is pretty good, though.


Yes, that high-leveled player told me to do that. I just never have done it before, but it's quite easy to do, I guess (spin test on the table).


XSF ITTF approved balls are now sold in bulk on Megaspin, a pack of 72 for $99 (USD). That's $1.38 per ball, less than Nittaku Premium Celluloid balls sold in bulk.

By far the best plastic ball made, now at an excellent price and generally available.

_________________
Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2014, 03:16 
Offline
Joo Too
Joo Too
User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 18:31
Posts: 3177
Location: Dendermonde, Belgium
Has thanked: 800 times
Been thanked: 367 times
Blade: BTY Joo Se Hyuk ST
FH: DHS Hurricane 3-50 Soft R
BH: TSP Curl P1-R 1.5 B
Baal wrote:
XSF ITTF approved balls are now sold in bulk on Megaspin, a pack of 72 for $99 (USD). That's $1.38 per ball, less than Nittaku Premium Celluloid balls sold in bulk.

By far the best plastic ball made, now at an excellent price and generally available.


In Belgium they are currently available at Dandoy.

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2014, 03:37 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User

Joined: 16 Oct 2007, 13:44
Posts: 2906
Location: Houston
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 139 times
Lorre wrote:
Baal wrote:
XSF ITTF approved balls are now sold in bulk on Megaspin, a pack of 72 for $99 (USD). That's $1.38 per ball, less than Nittaku Premium Celluloid balls sold in bulk.

By far the best plastic ball made, now at an excellent price and generally available.


In Belgium they are currently available at Dandoy.


Yes, I bought one of my first samples Dandoy. They have had them for awhile, although not, at least the last time I checked, in bulk.

One other thing. Igorponger some time back mentioned a place in China that he thought was the factory selling at 0.5 USD per ball if you buy 500. I tried to buy some from that place on Aliexpress (much smaller sample size, it was about $66 USD) just before ssandy commented here that he had no idea who these people were but would need to check (!!!). I never received the balls so canceled the order, and Aliexpress says ok and that I will receive a refund "in 7-10 days". Yesterday I received a message via Aliexpress from Mr. Franklin Yan that the shipment had been returned from him by China Post and his apologies. To which I say, "hmmmmmm". I now wait to see if I actually get the refund. This is certainly not going to bankrupt me, but I should have followed my initial instincts. Why would a manufacturer undercut their vendors like that?

Edit added, somebody over at MyTT did successfully receive balls from this vendor.

_________________
Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2014, 08:56 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 31481
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1489 times
Been thanked: 946 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dornenglanz OX
Baal wrote:
Edit added, somebody over at MyTT did successfully receive balls from this vendor.

Did they look genuine?

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Table Tennis Reviews / Articles | Table Guide | Robot Guide | Re-Impact Blades
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide | Novel way to glue OX pips


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next




All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2012 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




Don't forget to 'LIKE' our forum on Facebook if you enjoy the content: