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 Post subject: Plastic balls are slow
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2015, 01:33 
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Is it the increased size or the weight but I find plastic balls to be slow.

Quite a bit less spin too!

Better for TV but for me,I prefer the older ball.


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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2015, 05:08 
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Haven't tried it but slow doesn't bother me. Longer rallies I think.
What bothers me is low bounce and less spin...
I hope it gets better until I order my first plastic balls in a couple of years. :^)

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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2015, 06:03 
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mac33 wrote:
Is it the increased size or the weight but I find plastic balls to be slow.

Quite a bit less spin too!

Better for TV but for me,I prefer the older ball.


What particular brand of plastic ball are we talking about? I don't mind seamless versions one bit (Xushaofa, Yinhe, Nexy) and find them to be very close to celluloid - perhaps more 'solid'. Hate seamed ones with a passion, though.

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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2015, 09:08 
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I think the fact that the ball is slower is because of the bigger size. I don't like the new ball, lacks spin and many of the balls breaks so easy...


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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2015, 09:59 
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I think if they made celluloid balls that were 40.5 mm instead of 39.5 mm they would be slower and less spinny too, but at least the bounce height would be normal. Solution to this now is seamless. Alternatively, if your league is still using celluloid, don't change yet.

Last week I played with some Butterfly 40+ balls made in Feb of 2015, the newest ones I have ever tried. These are seamed balls, and they were significantly better in terms of play than some I had tried in November. That is, once we found a round one. Still, hope springs eternal.

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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2015, 15:44 
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The change from 38 mm to the bigger ball was huge. This move adding another 1mm in size seems to me to be almost as big again.

I watched one match from the English table tennis association website between Chris Dorrans and Gareth Rumgay and now I fully understand why Gareth had absolutely no penetration on his smashes.

It's the ball----- it's seriously,seriously slow.

I think this is going to be better for TV.

The ball is much easier to pick up and the rallies are much longer.

Smashing versus retrieving are going to become the norm.

I find I need to significantly increase my racquet head speed on all strokes with the new ball.

And on smashes---- it's nigh on impossible to hit clean winners.

Return of serve is much easier due to less spin.

A counter looping strategy over a block is a better choice thanks to the greatly reduced spin and speed.

Short pips favouring attacking flat strokes should play very well in theory with much less spin on the ball.

Lastly,I think the gap between men and women will increase.

The reason is strength has now become a much,much bigger factor.

Time will tell


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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2015, 02:07 
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mac33 wrote:
The change from 38 mm to the bigger ball was huge. This move adding another 1mm in size seems to me to be almost as big again.

I watched one match from the English table tennis association website between Chris Dorrans and Gareth Rumgay and now I fully understand why Gareth had absolutely no penetration on his smashes.

It's the ball----- it's seriously,seriously slow.

I think this is going to be better for TV.

The ball is much easier to pick up and the rallies are much longer.

Smashing versus retrieving are going to become the norm.

I find I need to significantly increase my racquet head speed on all strokes with the new ball.

And on smashes---- it's nigh on impossible to hit clean winners.

Return of serve is much easier due to less spin.

A counter looping strategy over a block is a better choice thanks to the greatly reduced spin and speed.

Short pips favouring attacking flat strokes should play very well in theory with much less spin on the ball.

Lastly,I think the gap between men and women will increase.

The reason is strength has now become a much,much bigger factor.

Time will tell



i totally agree with everything you say.


though i haven't played with the new poly ball much, but enough to make my own conclusions:

new poly butterfly ball 40+

- heavy
- lower spin
- lower bounce
- rougher surface

i can not hit the forehand down the line as easy as i can with the normal ball, serves are not that spinny and flat smashes are reduced in speed.

so what i have done as a countermeasures:

- heavier set up (racket is now a blade that is 94 grams, and i now put 3-4 layers of glue on my hurricane3-50) total weight of racket and rubber is now 195 grams <-- this has helped me with the offset of power... i seem to hit better forehands with a heavier set up with the poly ball.

As for the back hand i am still playing around to find the best rubber, currently Tenergy 05 is ok, but i am thinking there needs to be a much faster rubber so the new generation productions from any manufacturers will be coming soon.

also i have had a conversation from one of my hitting friends who just played in a poly tournament. (Ohio arnold classic)

he stated his conclusions as this:

- many blockers and not hitters were represented at this tourney, almost seems that most hitters knew not to show up to the this Poly event.
- with his set up, he could not create the spin and speed that gives him the advantage as with Cell ball.
- many balls had to be replaced because the balls broke so fast. (this is pretty serious issue, the durability has to be improved or it is never going to be a popular move)
- cost of poly ball is ridiculous now a sleeve of 3 balls is now around 10 dollars, and the break so fast thus it is going to almost double the cost for most players going to the poly ball.
- he thinks short pips will eventually take over due to the lack of spin and spin will not be a factor so you might as well switch to short pips on one of your sides.

anyways a table tennis revolution is about to happen again and hopefully it won't ruin the sport as we know it right now.

as for me, i will just play with a heavy set up and see what other players are doing.

my 2 cents.

phamster

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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2015, 13:12 
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Go back to pips Mac...you'll enjoy it more :P :lol:

Ball is definitely slower. So if you are trying to slow the game with pips, its now easier. It can still be flat-hit for a winner, but the stroke has to be more precise to accommodate for the ball dipping less now. Included in the greater precision is needing to pick your spot better, as the slower ball does block more easily if you don't place the smash to where the opponent struggles to reach.

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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2015, 16:01 
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The first time I tried the plastic ball I did notice it was a bit slower,maybe 5 percent or so.

Then on Monday i played for a full hour with it and i was amazed by just how slow it was!

It was a Nexy plastic ball.

I would think players that rely on spin as a weapon would drop off a bit.

And not so much due to the less spin. As you brush the ball fine with this ball the speed is laughably slow.

I tend to think spin players will not flatten their strokes out to gain power but will do the opposite--- brush he ball finer to gain more spin.

You will start to see two types of players,the high topspin player and the much flatter loop spin. The flat drive will come much more into play!

But who knows,time will tell.

Fast off plus blades will soon be the norm.

For TV,the improvement in viewing should be significant.

The ball being easier to see and the rallies being longer.


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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2015, 18:30 
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new plastic balls better maintain spin (even it is less spin) but still it loosses less spin while from one stroke to second stroke.
so im guessing that pips with better reversal will do better (maybe this is the reason why Joo See Hyuk changed black pips to red)
anyway for defenders they are so bad as i thought so... maybe spin is less but they harder to lift and punch/push can be really flat and direct

main problems what i found while playing platics are:
1. durbality - usually they broke 1-2 in 1 training (2 hours)
2. cost - they are high expensive (with their durbality it's getting really 4xhigh)
3. bounce - they randomly has strange bounce (usually randomly pop up ~10cm)

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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2015, 22:59 
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Once you adjust to any of the balls, my experience is that the same people largely beat the same people. I don't know anyone who gained significant rating points because of the ball, though it has generally given older loopers like myself more time to react and to get to fast spinny loops.

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PostPosted: 06 Oct 2015, 05:40 
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Just stock up on celluloid and don't worry about it. I like both celluloid and plastic, they each give a certain feel, so it's all good with me. I use both equally. I like the slower game of plastic and the more spinny faster game of celluloid. But really it's hardly noticible.


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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2015, 11:53 
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We definitely believe improvements have been made since the first batch release of plastic balls, especially for the ones used internationally. At the World Championships and World Tour events there didn't seem to be as many breakages as one would expect considering the rate of breakage among regular players.

The seamless balls definitely have a better reputation for playability currently but both are still slower and less spinny than celluloid, whether or not they can achieve a ball with very similar properties remains to be seen.

For now the Xushaofa is one of the most popular and from the seamed balls the Nittaku Premium has the best reviews.

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2015, 13:54 
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I overheard one of last weeks opponents talking to his coach between games and was encouraged to hear him saying there was too much spin and he was struggling with the serves a bit and this is the first league match with the kingnik poly ball so reasonable spin is achievable ,I was worried as this is a big part of my game gotta work a bit harder though ,thin contact ,accelerated racket speed,I eased off slightly and he start to score

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2015, 21:30 
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Maybe a little tiny bit less topspin, but sidespin??? I'd say the Kingnik/XSF ball bounces SIDEWAYS a lot more! :lol:

I bought the last of the Minkow 38mm celluloid balls.. Maybe I'll slip one in without telling anyone and see what happens.. :lol:

Iskandar


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