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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2015, 20:41 
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AA wrote:
that being said, this all comes with a big downfall: compared to other standard polyballs (donic, nittaku sha, joola, tibhar, double hapinnes) they most definitely generate the least spin compared to other polyballs...its crazy..i would say 50% less...

If the cost did not do it already, this would ruin it for me. Spin is the most enjoyable part of TT for me.

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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2015, 22:38 
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haggisv wrote:
AA wrote:
that being said, this all comes with a big downfall: compared to other standard polyballs (donic, nittaku sha, joola, tibhar, double hapinnes) they most definitely generate the least spin compared to other polyballs...its crazy..i would say 50% less...

If the cost did not do it already, this would ruin it for me. Spin is the most enjoyable part of TT for me.


Here, here!!

Do you find you have to adjust your stroke angle on all shots using your tacky Alex??

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PostPosted: 09 Aug 2015, 23:27 
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Robot Blocker wrote:
Do you find you have to adjust your stroke angle on all shots using your tacky Alex??

No, not at all actually. We use the DHS seamed for comp (and so I practice with them as well), and although the bounce requires some change in timing, I don't really need to adjust my strokes at all. I feel the change to this ball has worked in my favour, as my spin seems as effective, I get more kick off the table from my own loops as the ball grips more on the table, and it's easier for me to block with the pimples. The durability is a real issue though.

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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2015, 01:06 
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haggisv wrote:
Robot Blocker wrote:
Do you find you have to adjust your stroke angle on all shots using your tacky Alex??

No, not at all actually. We use the DHS seamed for comp (and so I practice with them as well), and although the bounce requires some change in timing, I don't really need to adjust my strokes at all. I feel the change to this ball has worked in my favour, as my spin seems as effective, I get more kick off the table from my own loops as the ball grips more on the table, and it's easier for me to block with the pimples. The durability is a real issue though.


Thats with your no1 set up yeh??
What thickness do u use??

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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2015, 08:09 
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Robot Blocker wrote:
Thats with your no1 set up yeh??
What thickness do u use??

Yes. 1.8mm for the 401.

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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2015, 11:39 
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These are the best plastic we have played with so far. Consistent and durable. I smashed one with my pips out forehand for over 3 hours. No problem. Everyone liked them. Well worth the wait and price.


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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2015, 11:41 
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haggisv wrote:
AA wrote:
that being said, this all comes with a big downfall: compared to other standard polyballs (donic, nittaku sha, joola, tibhar, double hapinnes) they most definitely generate the least spin compared to other polyballs...its crazy..i would say 50% less...

If the cost did not do it already, this would ruin it for me. Spin is the most enjoyable part of TT for me.


I have not had anything like that experience. I find that they spin about the same as any other 40+ ball, certainly not less. While they are still 40+, and all 40+ have a bit less spin than celluloid, I find the NP40+ is closest to the celluloid experience. Their downside is price and the fact that they are very difficult to find. Their upside is playing quality. The really good players at my club, 2500-2650 range, won't use anything else.

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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2015, 14:28 
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Baal wrote:
I find that they spin about the same as any other 40+ ball, certainly not less.


at first i thought i was imagining it...but then we took out a batch of the other poly balls we played with previously and actually made a direct comparison..my team mate looped and i blocked...first with the nittaku premiums and then with the other balls...the difference was like night and day..easily 50% more spin with the other balls...and the 15 premium balls were no eggs...they came from a batch of 120 balls picked out randomly

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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2015, 23:55 
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AA wrote:
Baal wrote:
I find that they spin about the same as any other 40+ ball, certainly not less.


at first i thought i was imagining it...but then we took out a batch of the other poly balls we played with previously and actually made a direct comparison..my team mate looped and i blocked...first with the nittaku premiums and then with the other balls...the difference was like night and day..easily 50% more spin with the other balls...and the 15 premium balls were no eggs...they came from a batch of 120 balls picked out randomly


I've played almost exclusively with 40+ balls for 16 months, I am pretty sure longer than nearly anyone who posts at OOAK forum. I have many many hours with each type, NP40+, seamless, Chinese seamed, with players of many levels, including the current US national champion. I have owned samples from many different months. All I can say is that is not my experience, and my experience, as I say, is very extensive. I may not know much about table tennis, others can judge from my posts here going back many years. One thing I do know about is 40+ balls. From the start I made it more or less my mission to find out as much as I could.

What is true is that NP40+ is dustier out of the box, and you have to keep your rubber clean, which is pretty easy. Other than that, there is also simply no physical reason whatsoever as to why one ball would be "50%" more or less spinny than another.

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PostPosted: 12 Aug 2015, 00:41 
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Baal wrote:

What is true is that NP40+ is dustier out of the box, and you have to keep your rubber clean, which is pretty easy. Other than that, there is also simply no physical reason whatsoever as to why one ball would be "50%" more or less spinny than another.


as mentioned, i did a direct comparison, at the same time, with the same person. and not only did i conclude the difference, it was even more noticeable for him and i am talking about a stark difference. there is a very striking physical difference to the other polyballs: the ball feels harder and more durable (and definitely is)...it also however is far more "dusty" or whatever you want to call the coating and even having washed and played the ball several times, it never becomes entirely "dust" free (at least it feels like that) and the surface is definitely not smooth, whilst the other polyballs feel entirely smooth. so i assume that whatever is preventing the nittaku premium from becoming entirely smooth, also leads to the fact that less spin can be translated onto the ball

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PostPosted: 12 Aug 2015, 09:19 
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AA wrote:
Baal wrote:

What is true is that NP40+ is dustier out of the box, and you have to keep your rubber clean, which is pretty easy. Other than that, there is also simply no physical reason whatsoever as to why one ball would be "50%" more or less spinny than another.


as mentioned, i did a direct comparison, at the same time, with the same person. and not only did i conclude the difference, it was even more noticeable for him and i am talking about a stark difference. there is a very striking physical difference to the other polyballs: the ball feels harder and more durable (and definitely is)...it also however is far more "dusty" or whatever you want to call the coating and even having washed and played the ball several times, it never becomes entirely "dust" free (at least it feels like that) and the surface is definitely not smooth, whilst the other polyballs feel entirely smooth. so i assume that whatever is preventing the nittaku premium from becoming entirely smooth, also leads to the fact that less spin can be translated onto the ball


You directly measured rotations per second? Of course not. So more likely, one guy looped and the other guy blocked and you each had an impression as to how spinny the ball is.

So we are just going to have to agree to disagree about this since I clearly will not convince you, which is fine.

I find the NP40+ to be quite spinny as 40+ balls go. The decrease in spin in all 40+ balls compared to celluloid relates to their larger size. None of the 40+ balls are not entirely smooth when you compare them to celluloid (something that was noted here by Debater more than a year ago) and it seems to me that NP40+ is fairly normal in that respect -- unless your rubber is covered with ball dust.

I guess at the end of the day, the impression of "spinniness" for equipment is one of the most subjective of all. So other members will just have to find their own impressions on this.

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PostPosted: 12 Aug 2015, 19:13 
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I have to be honest, I found the Nittaku Premium more spinny than the Xushaofa too. However, I'm willing to accept that this might have been psychological because I was hoping the Premium would be more spinny than the other plastic balls (considering how much more expensive they are!).

I'll do some work on this on Thursday with my regular drilling partner (Premium vs. XSF) and see what I find.

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PostPosted: 12 Aug 2015, 19:21 
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Baal wrote:

You directly measured rotations per second? Of course not. So more likely, one guy looped and the other guy blocked and you each had an impression as to how spinny the ball is.



i was blocking with my slick anti and he was looping, it was one and the same person. we did a direct comparison extensively and as mentioned, the "impression" was stark. we are talking about two 2.national league players here and not two fresh baked rookies who do not know what they are talking about due to lack of experience.

but the difference is also noticeable objectively without measuring the spins per sec: when blocking with a slick anti, the ball trajectory becomes lower and the ball becomes shorter, the more incoming spin is in the loop. with the other polyballs, the blocks had a much lower trajectory and came shorter, whilst the blocks were higher and longer with the nittaku premiums (=less spin in the loop). again: stark difference. the difference was so stark, that we will not use them for our team in the 2.national league after having bought and registered them and had to go through the hassle of changing the registration of which balls we will use with our national association. decisions like these are not done out of a mere whim on this level. if i get really bored and have too much time on my hand, i might even film a direct comparison.

i also thought of the possibility of having "eggs" at hand here, but the 15 balls were picked randomly out of a fresh batch of 120 and thus this seems very unlikely.

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PostPosted: 12 Aug 2015, 19:28 
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Where did you get 120 Nittaku Premium balls from? Did you really buy 40 boxes?!

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PostPosted: 12 Aug 2015, 19:35 
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dunc wrote:
Where did you get 120 Nittaku Premium balls from? Did you really buy 40 boxes?!


the club bought them from one of the main local tabletennis shops. the balls are 100% authentic and a fresh batch. yep, we wanted to have the best balls and we ready to pay that hefty price...they definitely are more durable. so again: the decision to get rif of them was not out of mere whim ;) the funny thing is that before the direct comparison, i assumed that something was wrong with my sheet, because i noticed a strong decrease in spin reversal in my blocks..first i thought that the sheet was worn off or humidity was too high etc. and then last training i thought that it might be the balls, so we decided to do an extensive direct comparison. and that was quite a revelation.

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