Jesus, that's a big loss

That's the only report I've heard to suggest the Premium is less spinny but I don't know many people who have used the ball.

Well, for what it's worth: I also had the impression the Nittaku Premimum was less spinny than the XSF. I only played with it for five minutes, though. Maybe you have to do some technical changes between the two balls to get the best out of them.

the loopers in my club had no problem with the ball and wouldnt have noticed the difference in spin when playing amongst each other. some only claimed that it felt slightly heavier and that they had to put more effort into their strokes. slick antis have a lot to do with spinreversal and thus it makes sense that the difference would become apparent when playing against slick antis/me.

Maybe the ball grips the rubber more and therefore there is less spin reversal?

i assume the key lays in the "dusty" non-slick surface.

update: a friend of mine who really tries everything (slick anti player) confirmed that he also thought the nittaku premium was bad in the mentioned sense. he also got hold of the new butterfly balls today that will be released soon and gave me a call. he claims that unlike the other polyballs and just like the nittaku premium, it is darker in colour and about as durable. however this ball too is less spinny. this ball apparantly is produced in japan. would be interesting to know whether its the same factory. i assume that whatever is making the balls more durable and darker is messing with the spin characteristics.

i was blocking with my slick anti and he was looping, it was one and the same person. we did a direct comparison extensively and as mentioned, the "impression" was stark.

And yet it is still an impression. You did not measure rotations/second with a high speed camera or something like that. To be honest, it might even depend some on what table you are using.

And yet it is still an impression. You did not measure rotations/second with a high speed camera or something like that. Clearly from this thread different players are getting different impressions, and that shows the difficulty in judging "spin". What is it that is happening with one ball more than another that a player interprets as due to the spin? Many different things. To be honest, it might even depend some on what table you are using. (This is also why I have tended to ignore rubber reviews where people say one kind of rubber generates more spin than another). On average the NP40+ is very slightly smaller in diameter (this I have measured very carefully) and definitely lighter than seamless (this I have also measured very carefully with a laboratory balance) and therefore the NP40+ ought to spin just a little more -- but who knows it may not. The differences that I thought I saw -- which is that NP40+ flies a little faster and spins more than XSF -- were not big effectsl. I like both balls, but it takes me a few minutes to adjust to one when I have played a lot with the other. They are certainly not the same. They both have nice high bounces. I am content with either one. My preference from a purely playing point of view is for NP40+ and my game relies a lot on spin. I prefer the cost and availability of seamless. I still have yet to find a seamed Chinese ball that I like.

And let me emphasize again, I have collectively hundreds of hours with both types of balls over the last 18 months (those two are pretty much all I use over that period).

This is one of my pet peeves with table tennis equipment. You go to tabletennisdb.com and you'll find page after page of reviews. The numerical ratings are one thing - they're subjective, based on no actual measurements or calibrated scale, though no one (except rank newbies discovering this stuff for the first time) takes them seriously, except in very broad terms. It's the added comments at the bottom of the reviews that get me. Supposedly this rubber is good for looping and bad for blocking, that one chops great but loops poorly, etc. And about 90% of the rubbers are "great" or "fantastic". When I actually try the rubbers myself, the difference between them is so slight I have to really concentrate to feel any difference. Even mounted on opposite sides of the same blade the differences are so subtle I have to deliberately try different shots with each rubber in turn in order to discern the very slight difference. Doesn't matter - Tensor, Chinese, etc. they all play very much alike rather than differently. Blades, on the other hand, differ a lot more, and I can tell the difference outright.

Iskandar