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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2017, 09:30 
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Today I've got my first experience as substitute player and we've came to a team who used this Butterfly G40+ Made in Germany ball, black logo. Or to be more specific, it is this ball http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=29577 and I agree with AA...

In my humble opinion, this ball sucks big time. I've never seen something playing this worse, even most of the cheapest China training balls are more predictable. My CJ8000 is usually slightly tacky but today with this ball it became sticky - and of course it behaved very different. Same with the pips which didn't show effect at all and retrieving or chopping a ball turned out to be worthless, due to no control. I need some arc and here the ball went either into the net or over the table, it refused to sink.
All of the matches turned out to look like recreational ping-pong and even the hometeam had trouble playing with their own ball. The ball in use was already shiny and smooth and without texture. I did test some balls which were less smooth whilst waiting for the next match and these balls behaved somewhat different - but still not satisfying. Even the Tibhar 40+ is better to play with.
Our team did win 2 matches, strangely enough by the very guy who didn't win any game up to today and who is using a racket with very old, very abused classical rubbers. Using the oldest racket with the oldest rubbers at hand may be useful next time when playing at a location with this shame of a ball.

Or with the words of a famous TV-chef: This ball is disgusting, it's a f**king shame that something like this is used in competition.

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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2017, 16:26 
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have you tried the nittaku premium? its on the same level of horror

i have tried nearly all of the most common polyballs and the ones clearly different (and worse) than the others are the g40, the nittaku premium, hanno and joola flash.

the best two in terms of maintaining spin are the tsp 3* followed by the donic3* . the "normal" joola polyball is decent too

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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2017, 17:03 
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@AA
I haven't met the Nittaku Premium yet and from Hanno I've had the training version only which seems to be very similar to the one from Tibhar.

One user reported to like the Nittaku Premium also liked the G40, Cornilleau and Xiom. I guess it means I should stay away from either one of these balls...

But yes, it felt like a nightmare. The last time I had a similar experience was when I left my glasses at home...

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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2017, 22:42 
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Red wrote:
@AA
I haven't met the Nittaku Premium yet and from Hanno I've had the training version only which seems to be very similar to the one from Tibhar.

One user reported to like the Nittaku Premium also liked the G40, Cornilleau and Xiom. I guess it means I should stay away from either one of these balls...

But yes, it felt like a nightmare. The last time I had a similar experience was when I left my glasses at home...


The cornilleau is ok but not great

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PostPosted: 11 Feb 2017, 06:19 
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See, this is why I still have a couple of old celluloid balls with me : D


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2017, 23:33 
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There is no accounting for taste, but the vast majority of players who have tried many of the 40+ balls like the Nittaku Premiums the best, so much so that when somebody says they are terrible, my immediate suspicion is that they were actually playing with the Nittaku SHA, which IS terrible. The Nittaku Premiums have been out long enough now that my statement on player preference is not an alternative fact. People who like them will like the new DHS D40+ 3*.

By the way, in the time since I wrote these initial reviews of the Butterfly G40+, it is safe to say they have not really caught on at least in North America. I really dislike them and it is almost impossible to find anyone using them in my city of 6 million people. Here people use the Nittaku Premium or a seamless ball when they have a choice.

New is also that ITTF is now moving to essentially eliminate celluloid balls.

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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2017, 00:17 
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Baal wrote:
The Nittaku Premiums have been out long enough now that my statement on player preference is not an alternative fact.


i think the undisputable fact is that the premium (like the g40/joola flash/hanno) takes much less spin than the sha and many other plastic balls and thus is deemed undesireable by many defensive player, players who need spin in their game or slick anti players.

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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2017, 22:10 
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AA wrote:
Baal wrote:
The Nittaku Premiums have been out long enough now that my statement on player preference is not an alternative fact.


i think the undisputable fact is that the premium (like the g40/joola flash/hanno) takes much less spin than the sha and many other plastic balls and thus is deemed undesireable by many defensive player, players who need spin in their game or slick anti players.


I dispute it strongly. This preference for Nittaku Premium is shared by at least four former US national team members (all of whom live in my town), including one who was once 70 in the world, none of whom are defensive players. As for myself personally, I am certainly no defender!!!!

I find it almost impossible to find anyone who likes an sha ball or other cellulose acetate seamed balls. Even the manufacturer seems to agree since they have come out with a new ABS ball that will probably soon become the standard.

As for the relative spin of the balls, the thing I dispute, if you can't prove it with high speed video, than it is not meaningful. I have commented on this at length in other threads on why claims about more or less spin should be viewed with extreme skepticism. I don't have the patience to repeat it here.

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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2017, 23:18 
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Baal wrote:
AA wrote:
Baal wrote:
The Nittaku Premiums have been out long enough now that my statement on player preference is not an alternative fact.


i think the undisputable fact is that the premium (like the g40/joola flash/hanno) takes much less spin than the sha and many other plastic balls and thus is deemed undesireable by many defensive player, players who need spin in their game or slick anti players.


I dispute it strongly. This preference for Nittaku Premium is shared by at least four former US national team members (all of whom live in my town), including one who was once 70 in the world, none of whom are defensive players. As for myself personally, I am certainly no defender!!!!

I find it almost impossible to find anyone who likes an sha ball or other cellulose acetate seamed balls. Even the manufacturer seems to agree since they have come out with a new ABS ball that will probably soon become the standard.

As for the relative spin of the balls, the thing I dispute, if you can't prove it with high speed video, than it is not meaningful. I have commented on this at length in other threads on why claims about more or less spin should be viewed with extreme skepticism. I don't have the patience to repeat it here.


Baal, aren't you in fact agreeing with AA here? He is saying that defensive players dislike NP40+ ('less spin'), and you are pointing out that attackers, yourself included, like it.

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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2017, 02:44 
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pgpg wrote:

Baal, aren't you in fact agreeing with AA here? He is saying that defensive players dislike NP40+ ('less spin'), and you are pointing out that attackers, yourself included, like it.



Hmm. Yes, you're right. I think I read too fast. I would still say that the consensus that you can find throughout TT forums all over the world is that NP40+ is closer to celluloid than any of the other 40+ balls. The D40+ weighs the same as seamless, and more than NP40+. At some point I imagine he will find out since it is pretty likely that the ABS versions of 40+ will be the dominant ball at some point.

Edit added. AA doesn't like seamless balls either, since he doesn't like Joola Flash. He also dislikes Nittaku Premium, and Butterfly G40+. In fact, the only balls he seems to like are cellulose acetate made in China 40+ balls! (That comprises all the ones he mentioned). Those balls are fragile, expensive, and they bounce low. He is the only player I have ever met who favors those balls. So people should bear that in mind. He likes what he likes, and that is fine, but from that pattern, I can guarantee that he will not like the D40+, and I can promise that most players don't like the kinds that AA likes.

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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2017, 05:56 
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Baal wrote:
pgpg wrote:

So people should bear that in mind. He likes what he likes, and that is fine, but from that pattern, I can guarantee that he will not like the D40+, and I can promise that most players don't like the kinds that AA likes.


which of course is nonesense. if you dive off to forums like noppentest, where there are many slick anti players, you will quickly realize that the clear majority of players dislike g40, premium and flash. its undisputed within the slick anti community and as mentioned before, can easily be proven by a video that i posted 1-2 years ago.

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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2017, 06:00 
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AA wrote:
Baal wrote:


So people should bear that in mind. He likes what he likes, and that is fine, but from that pattern, I can guarantee that he will not like the D40+, and I can promise that most players don't like the kinds that AA likes.


which of course is nonesense. if you dive off to forums like noppentest, where there are many slick anti players, you will quickly realize that the clear majority of players dislike g40, premium and flash. its undisputed within the slick anti community and as mentioned before, can easily be proven by a video that i posted 1-2 years ago.


Fixed nested quotes - since it was Baal's statement quoted above, not mine. :?:

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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2017, 06:45 
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This might be confirmation bias, but as an LP player, I absolutely loathe playing with the G40+ ball.

The XSF or Yinhe are greatly preferable.

I've only played a couple of times with the nittaku, but quite liked it.


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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2017, 07:35 
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FWIW, the LP players in my club dislike the DHS acetate cellulose ball. The issue is that the ball wobbles and bounces unreliably after it goes through a real rally. They use the NP40+ ball or a seamless ball, though I suspect everyone will soon be using the D40+ as I am pushing them in that direction.

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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2017, 09:20 
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pgpg wrote:
AA wrote:
Baal wrote:


So people should bear that in mind. He likes what he likes, and that is fine, but from that pattern, I can guarantee that he will not like the D40+, and I can promise that most players don't like the kinds that AA likes.


which of course is nonesense. if you dive off to forums like noppentest, where there are many slick anti players, you will quickly realize that the clear majority of players dislike g40, premium and flash. its undisputed within the slick anti community and as mentioned before, can easily be proven by a video that i posted 1-2 years ago.


Fixed nested quotes - since it was Baal's statement quoted above, not mine. :?:


OK. So just to be clear, you have stated clearly that you dislike seamless balls, Butterfly G40+ and the Nittaku Premiums. The only 40+ balls you (and your slick-anti friends) like are the seamed cellulose acetate balls made in China, most of which are re-branded versions of DHS. Everyone has their likes and dislikes but people should interpret anything you say about 40+ balls with that in mind. Given what you have said, I can promise that you will also dislike D40+.

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