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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2016, 00:24 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Isn't the Tibhar seamed? Supposedly the same as the DHS?

Iskandar


The ball I used was seamless. It was used at a sanctioned Butterfly (!) tournament. The guy supplying the balls claimed that it was made in the same factory as XSF but it played a little differently. At this stage I've given up thinking about the XSF (seamless) and Nittaku Premium ball. Try and play with whatever ball I will be competing with the day beforehand and just go for it on the day.

Original thoughts was that I competed better with the NP 40+ than the XSF but on the last vets tournament that used the XSF I played better than normal taking advantage of the high hop of the XSF ball. NP 40+ is a little harder work getting it to spin so I tend to loop the first ball to spin it up. With the XSF I get better opportunities for a 3rd ball attack.

Still looking for a place where I can get the NP 40+ at a cheaper price than €2.50 a ball since it is my preferred training ball. Appreciate any pointers.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2016, 01:11 
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Ah, sounds like I should have grabbed a pack of the Tibhar balls at the WTTC, in that case. They had them for sale, but I thought they'd be the older seamed Tibhars - the club Brett was playing at in Chiang Mai used them, and there were several broken ones sitting on the railing.

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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2016, 12:04 
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Yes that's right, Tibhar now have both seamed and seamless and both are approved. I think the seamed were made by DHS, and the seamless most likely XSF... I have not tried them.

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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2016, 02:21 
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magnuseffect wrote:
AA wrote:
wilkinru wrote:
It's my opinion that the NP40+ is the best out there and it should make for a better game for the pros.

.


depends on the style. defenitely not for defenders or slick anti players as this ball enables less spin then most other plastic balls, the only ball even worse being the new butterfly g40 which is an even bigger nightmare


Interesting. As a defender my favorite ball is the NP40+. I enjoy the even bounce and longer rallies. Agree that the G40 has clearly the least spin and also awful sound.

When it comes to my match results (win ratio) with different balls I think it would be: DHS clone = N40 > Seamless > G40.

I'll have to try the DHS balls again to see if I can notice the spin difference. But surely the difference is a lot less between DHS and NP40+ than between NP40+ and G40.



I think you guys are missing my point.

The DHS balls are garbage, they break and they are not round and have odd bounces all of the time. This screws up consistency for all players, no matter the style.


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2016, 02:31 
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Ah...

Seamed:

Image

http://store.tibhar.com/en/Balls-Access ... -pack.html

Seamless:

http://store.tibhar.com/en/Balls-Access ... -pack.html

Image

Same price, EUR"5,50" per 3 pack.

In the 72 packs, the SL is a little cheaper (EUR"94,90" vs. EUR"109,90"). SL balls are so new they aren't in the 2015 catalog yet. For what it's worth, they're still selling celluloid balls, too.

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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2016, 12:09 
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My very first post on Ooakforum.

No matter which one is the official ball for the 2017WTTC, anyone is a better choice than DHS.


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2016, 12:24 
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yourock wrote:
My very first post on Ooakforum.

No matter which one is the official ball for the 2017WTTC, anyone is a better choice than DHS.



This is mostly my point. At least the NP40+ is a good ball.

Also welcome to the forum!


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2016, 16:48 
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wilkinru wrote:


This is mostly my point. At least the NP40+ is a good ball.



it is in terms of durability,but certainly not in terms of the property of enabling spin. i will always choose a joola , nittaku sha or donic three star ball which might not be as durable, but enables approx 50% more spin anytime over a more durable ball like the nittaku premium

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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2016, 10:34 
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AA wrote:
it is in terms of durability,but certainly not in terms of the property of enabling spin. i will always choose a joola , nittaku sha or donic three star ball which might not be as durable, but enables approx 50% more spin anytime over a more durable ball like the nittaku premium


Hi AA, I respect your experience (which is far greater than mine) and don't doubt that you and your playing partners have found the NP40+ to have less spin than some of the other poly balls. I just wonder if the 50% figure is realistic, given that it would mean the NP40+ would only be capable of ~100 revolutions per second versus a world-class ~150 revolutions per second (or that the NP40+ would be even less than 100 r/s if we assume a poly ball has less spin than a celluloid ball).

Someone with a high-speed camera (such as in a modern smartphone), some marked balls and some patience could probably confirm this one way or the other.

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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2016, 10:58 
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Although I would not put a percentage on it, I tend to agree with AA, that the seamed plastic balls carry much more spin. I admit that I only used a few seamless balls for some short sessions, and although I very much likely their bounce and speed, their lack of spin (and curve in the air) ruins it for me.

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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2016, 12:20 
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I doubt the differences are anywhere close to 50%. 5-7% would be believable, and HUGE, when you think of how small margins are in this game of ours. Similarly differences between (inverted) rubbers is probably more in the region of 5-10% at the most, and 2-3% in most cases. That's enough for people to tell the difference and to make a big difference in where the ball lands. 2-3% is also more than enough for all the top pros to pick one rubber over all the others, too, even if they're sponsored by another company (you know which rubber I'm talking about!).

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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2016, 23:38 
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iskandar taib wrote:
I doubt the differences are anywhere close to 50%. 5-7% would be believable, and HUGE, when you think of how small margins are in this game of ours. Similarly differences between (inverted) rubbers is probably more in the region of 5-10% at the most, and 2-3% in most cases. That's enough for people to tell the difference and to make a big difference in where the ball lands. 2-3% is also more than enough for all the top pros to pick one rubber over all the others, too, even if they're sponsored by another company (you know which rubber I'm talking about!).

Iskandar


lets say that the difference is extremely prominent in play. this is direct feedback from the people i have trained with with this ball.

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2016, 02:19 
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haggisv wrote:
Although I would not put a percentage on it, I tend to agree with AA, that the seamed plastic balls carry much more spin. I admit that I only used a few seamless balls for some short sessions, and although I very much likely their bounce and speed, their lack of spin (and curve in the air) ruins it for me.

AA wrote:
it is in terms of durability,but certainly not in terms of the property of enabling spin. i will always choose a joola , nittaku sha or donic three star ball which might not be as durable, but enables approx 50% more spin anytime over a more durable ball like the nittaku premium

Bit of a contradiction in the above posts. From what I understand AA is saying the seamed NP+ spins less than the seamless (namely XSF)

My experience after playing both the XSF & NP+ back to back on 2 different tournaments for the full day using the same setup is the following:

Spin XSF > NP+
Control NP+> XSF
Top end speed NP+ > XSF
Bounce XSF > NP+
Arc Jury out on this. Depends if the ball is spinning. High hop of the XSF confuses it a little.
Linear NP+ > XSF

I would rate the NP+ as a bit of a dead ball but consistent and predictable. What you 'see' is what you get.

XSF feels a bit too bouncy and gets out of control on a bouncy setup. High hop can be advantageous. Ball on big hits feels a bit like a shuttle - does not feel linear. Seems to top out.

I used to think that a seamed poly had better spin characteristics that a seamless but from a control perspective the NP+ is better. I reckon that the NP+ spins less than the XSF but it's only a perception.

One of the key reasons I've dropped from using a koto outer pile to limba is to see if it copes better with BOTH balls.


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2016, 07:23 
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Multispoke wrote:
Bit of a contradiction in the above posts. From what I understand AA is saying the seamed NP+ spins less than the seamless (namely XSF)

.


actually i wasnt comparing it to any ball specific ball...the xushaofa is equally bad. the only worse ball is the butterfly g40 which takes the cake...unplayable. good balls in terms of spin: donic, joola, nittaku sha etc

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2016, 09:53 
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AA wrote:
actually i wasnt comparing it to any ball specific ball...the xushaofa is equally bad. the only worse ball is the butterfly g40 which takes the cake...unplayable. good balls in terms of spin: donic, joola, nittaku sha etc


Haven't played with the G40 but have played with following...

Donic seamed 40+. Didn't think that much of this ball but from a test about 2-3 months ago with a team mate we both ranked it lower than the NP+ with their 1 star training poly lower again. It was just OK.
Joola seamed 40+. Batch I had in June 2015 was absolutely brutal. Would go through 3 in one evening. Haven't touched them since.
Nittaku SHA 40+. Never used them but supposed to be rubbish.

All the above balls are supposedly similar to the DHS 40+ seamed poly.

DHS 40+ seamless. Got a fresh batch in May 2015 in HK and they were just about OK but lasting a little longer than the Joola which isn't saying much. That said I haven't used any newer batches which have probably improved judging by the Donic 40+ seamed.

So if the spin of 'donic, joola, nittaku sha' is better than the NP+ I would tend to agree with the posting below...
wilkinru wrote:
The DHS balls are garbage, they break and they are not round and have odd bounces all of the time. This screws up consistency for all players, no matter the style.

If a criticism of the NP+ (and the XSF) is that their spin is significantly lower than the DHS clones them it's really a pointless comparison since the only balls that I play with in competition are

1. NP 40+
2. XSF
3. Tibhar 40+ seamless (supposedly similar if not the same as XSF)

No one 'locally' uses the DHS or their clones.

Is anyone on the OOAK using the DHS 40+ in competition / tournaments ?

P.S. anyone know where I can get a large box(72) of NP 40+ 2 star at a reasonable price preferably from within the EC ?


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