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PostPosted: 15 May 2016, 05:53 
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RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
LordCope wrote:
haggisv wrote:
I think Stag balls are seamless, and made by XSF, aren't they?


The Stag, XSF and Yinhe balls are made in exactly the same factory, with exactly the same plastic, using exactly the same moulding. The only difference is that after a certain number of batches, the stamp changes, and out pip Stag or Yinhe balls instead. The difference between them is entirely down to QA - some manufacturers will set lower standards, and there's a trade-off between wastage/time/price.

I know this because a friend of mine went to the factory where the balls are made and watched it all happening!


Obviously the shape of that stamp makes all the difference in how the ball plays! :P :lol: :rofl: :rofl:


Dates of manufacture matter, as do storage conditions (when they are left in the heat for many days they seem to change a bit).

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PostPosted: 15 May 2016, 06:01 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Retriever wrote:
OP here.

XGAE = 0615 ==> June 2015.


I was wondering if the difference between the XuShaoFa balls and the Yinhe balls Rockphish mentioned was due to difference in manufacturing date.

gekogark1212 wrote:
Apart from the Nittaku Premium 40+ ball, the rest of the field is pretty terrible in one way or another.

But I feel for ya mate, bloody TTNSW using Stag balls as their official ball is pretty hard to handle.


But I recall someone posting that those balls have a durability problem (like DHS and Tibhar seamed balls do).

Iskandar


Someone may have posted it, but if so, they are incorrect.

Seamless taken on average and over many balls over a long period, are the most durable plastic balls on the market, probably more durable than celluloid. However, they do have a property of smashing into pieces when they hit edges very hard. A slam onto the side of the table can cause it, or every once in awhile someone mishitting off the side of their blades. That is pretty much the only way to break them. When a seamless ball breaks, there is no mistaking it. It fractures, sometimes into pieces, and it's pretty dramatic. The external surface of seamless balls is pretty robust and stays good for a long time, resists marring and discoloration. On average, a seamless ball will last longer than any other plastic ball. I know this without any doubt from a very large sample size of many types of plastic balls starting from the week they first started selling them.

The seamless has a nice high bounce (in marked contrast to Chinese seamed balls). It appears to have the largest average external diameter of any other plastic balls. If you are used to celluloid or the good Nittaku plastic ball, a seamless ball at first is a bit like playing with a beach ball, but you get used to it quite quickly.

I prefer the good Nittaku plastic (the one made in Japan) but seamless balls are generally pretty good.

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PostPosted: 20 May 2016, 21:49 
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Baal wrote:
Someone may have posted it, but if so, they are incorrect.

Seamless taken on average and over many balls over a long period, are the most durable plastic balls on the market, probably more durable than celluloid. However, they do have a property of smashing into pieces when they hit edges very hard. A slam onto the side of the table can cause it, or every once in awhile someone mishitting off the side of their blades. That is pretty much the only way to break them. When a seamless ball breaks, there is no mistaking it. It fractures, sometimes into pieces, and it's pretty dramatic. The external surface of seamless balls is pretty robust and stays good for a long time, resists marring and discoloration. On average, a seamless ball will last longer than any other plastic ball. I know this without any doubt from a very large sample size of many types of plastic balls starting from the week they first started selling them.


Actually, the quote I was referring to was about the Nittaku Premium ball, not the Seamless balls - supposedly someone bought a 3 pack and broke 2 in a short amount of time (one weekend, IIRC).

I'd just love to see one of these seamless balls blow apart, just from the descriptions of how spectacular it is.. No luck so far. I've played with them some, but the only losses so far have been due to a couple (one Kingnik, one Sanwei) getting stuck up in some light fixtures! What happens when someone steps on one?

rokphish2 wrote:
I tried both version of XSF (domestic china version and international version, both have different marking on the balls and different box) and also Yinhe. I can say certainly the XSF are different than Yinhe when played (they even look different, different kind of white) even if are made in the same factory. The people I had tried them with also said the same thing, they play different.


OK, something interesting happened today. A HUGE box with over a thousand balls (yes, I think this buying stuff from China thing HAS gotten out of control.. :lol: ) from Minkow arrived. In it were some very interesting items: 1) their new seamed ABS ball. 2) Their "Super Practice" seamless ball, and 3) their "Ordinary" practice seamless ball. 2) looks just like the seamless balls we're all used to - BRIGHT titanium oxide white, high bounce, high pitched sound. 3)??? Well, it's like the Yinhes described above. Yellowish, bounce not as high - and they WERE considerably cheaper. More on 1) later - I plan to bring all three to Doubles this weekend to see how they play. Also got a few Kingnik 3 star "Premium Quality" balls (which I'll TRY to compare to the ordinary ones - though to be honest, side by side, I can't tell any difference).

(They also sent me a BIG bag of odds and ends.. two-toned balls like the ones they were using in the China Super League, some celluloid two-stars, some 50mm and 44mm balls, some Bingo balls... I'll have to write a nice thank-you note to Elsie tonight..)

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PostPosted: 21 May 2016, 01:33 
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iskandar taib wrote:

Actually, the quote I was referring to was about the Nittaku Premium ball, not the Seamless balls - supposedly someone bought a 3 pack and broke 2 in a short amount of time (one weekend, IIRC).

I'd just love to see one of these seamless balls blow apart, just from the descriptions of how spectacular it is.. No luck so far. I've played with them some, but the only losses so far have been due to a couple (one Kingnik, one Sanwei) getting stuck up in some light fixtures! What happens when someone steps on one?


Oh. I see.

In that case, they are also incorrect based on my experience (extensive, this is the main ball I use now). Nittaku Premium balls are reasonably durable. I would say they are comparable to the celluloid balls Nittaku used to make (which were never the most durable celluoids). Less durable than XSF, more durable than any other seamed plastic ball. Outside surface tends to discolor pretty rapidly.

When seamless balls shatter it's not like there is an explosion or something. :D But they do fracture completely with a distinct sound and what is left of the ball won't even bounce afterword. Interestingly, Nittaku Premium behaves very differently. Sometimes they will get a little crack in them and you can barely notice any difference in how they play at first.

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PostPosted: 23 May 2016, 15:47 
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So, incidentally, who made the most durable celluloids? I remember we used to break a lot of the DHS and Double Fish ones.

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PostPosted: 23 May 2016, 18:16 
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iskandar taib wrote:
So, incidentally, who made the most durable celluloids? I remember we used to break a lot of the DHS and Double Fish ones.

Iskandar

I never noticed a lot of difference between the brands. Cold rooms increased the 'mortality rate'.

Of the polys, Xsf is most common around here, mostly due to some bulk buys, but butterfly and nittaku are gaining popularity.

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PostPosted: 14 Jun 2016, 18:56 
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so_devo wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
So, incidentally, who made the most durable celluloids? I remember we used to break a lot of the DHS and Double Fish ones.

Iskandar

I never noticed a lot of difference between the brands. Cold rooms increased the 'mortality rate'.

Of the polys, Xsf is most common around here, mostly due to some bulk buys, but butterfly and nittaku are gaining popularity.



Why does Stag attract so much negative comment on their seamless ball? Even if I know actually their ball is just as good as XSF ball and Joola Flash (seamless), yinhe, etc.

Maybe it's just because ppl don't like Indian stuff?
I think it's not fair for Stag.

I think Butterfly plastic ball is just as bad as Chinese seamed ones. PPL just tend to like two cute wings of butterfly.


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2016, 12:59 
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Actually, I have not seen many negative comments on Stag seamless balls, and there is a pretty strong consensus on English language forums from people who have tried several that all seamless balls are pretty similar. Possibly they are identical, but maybe there is now more than one factory producing them. They are durable, offer a high and consistent bounce, but they are 40.5 mm in diameter, and that changes things compared to celluloid. They are also the least expensive plastic ball. So yes, negative comments are unfair to Stag IMHO.

Of course, the OP made his review after the first time he had ever played with any plastic ball. Changing from celluloid to any plastic ball requires a bit of adjustment -- several weeks in most people's experience, but it's not really a comment on Stag balls per se. Well, maybe it is, but without wishing to be contentious, I would suggest that it should not be taken too seriously yet. After the OP has had a time to get used to plastic balls and has had a chance to compare a few different varieties, his reviews will be more useful.

In time, there will be no more celluloid balls because Chinese factories will refuse to produce them.

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