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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2016, 20:10 
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iskandar taib wrote:
I don't recall there being QC problems with the move to the 40mm ball but I do recall a HUGE amount of stink about people "not liking" them. Most of this subsided after the balls had actually been in use for a while, but the level of acrimony online far exceeded anything I've seen with the plastic ball. I think the current complaints have far more to do with differences between the new balls and the old rather problems with roundness or (inconsistent) bounce. The one major problem encountered seems to be durability, and this seems to be a weakness of the current DHS and Double Fish seamed balls.

Iskandar


One problem we never had when we switched from 38 to 40 was such large differences in the playing properties of one brand compared to another. The differences between seamless, good Nittaku, G40+ and Chinese seamed balls are very large. Occasionally a seamed ball gets into the bucket I use for training and I can tell without looking when one of them is in play now. That was not ever possible with celluloid balls (my training bucket of celluloids had all sorts, DHS, Nittaku, Btfly, etc). The bounce heights are substantially different. And durability is a big issue, it cannot be discounted.

My recollection is different in another way. At least where I play, people did not really mind the switch to 40 anywhere near as much as they object to the early seamed Chinese balls. But almost nobody uses celluloid balls at my club anymore, certainly none of the more serious players.

Now, going back much farther in time, when I was a kid, ITTF approved Halex balls, which were pretty much awful. But that was in the 70s.

Eventually the sport will converge onto something.

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2016, 01:21 
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Yeah, back in the day of the 38mm ball (or at least, in the 1980s) there were two brands of ball - Nittaku and TSP - that people liked. There were other balls, but they WERE quite different (and generally awful), Halex and Dunlop being two examples. I remember one Halex ball that had a couple bulges around the seam - apparently the two halves were glued together too shallow on one side. We were wondering why we were missing so much until we took a close look at the ball. I remember buying a dozen Peace balls once - these were made in Korea, and were different somehow. I liked the box they came in, and kept it long after the balls were gone - it slid open like a matchbox and had an egg-crate like interior, in the tray. My favorite were the yellow TSPs - those were very visible and bounced like a Nittaku. Maybe even a little harder. Don't think I ever saw a Chinese 3 star ball until after the 40mm switch, when DHS balls started appearing in the US.

When I was in school we often played with Champion balls (since Nittakus were terribly expensive, when you had to pay for them out of pocket money). These had a prominent seam - a REAL seam, if they were the Death Star it would be like that trench Luke Skywalker flew down..) but bounced about the same as a Nittaku. And yes, they'd all break after some hours of use.

The difference is - today is that there are a lot of "good" brands - DHS, Double Fish, Stiga, Tibhar, Donic, Nittaku, etc. which made their name with the 40mm celluloid balls (plus XSF and all the seamless balls, which are new)... and when they're different from each other people notice, while back in the day of the 38mm ball, there WERE balls that were different, but everyone shunned them as a matter of course (they weren't ever used in tournaments) so no one really noticed.

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PostPosted: 14 Jun 2016, 19:05 
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haggisv wrote:
This is an interesting article from the ITTF website:
http://www.ittf.com/_front_Page/ittf_fu ... ition_ID=&

This implies the main seamless ball maker is Guangzhou Hefu Sport Equipment Company, not XSF.

It's very tricky to work out which company own the business and which ones just supply others...




Hmmm....If this article says Guangzhou Hefu produces it, then I guess it must be.

XSF could be their brand----Not every company uses same name for company and for its product...Of course, I guess it will be better publicity if these two names are the same.


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2016, 01:38 
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Actually.. this story was posted almost two years ago by sssandy (who works for the company that makes the balls):

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27014#p286676

Zhang Huilun (the inventor) is mentioned, so is Xu Shaofa (the person, former Chinese national team head coach). No details as to where the factory (and how many factories there were) was set up, and what the company was called, but Mr. Xu was definitely involved (and is probably part owner).

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PostPosted: 14 Feb 2017, 20:01 
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Has anyone tried the S40+ balls yet and if so, how do they compare to the Yinhe regular 3 star 40+ balls? Are they actually better or is it just marketing.

I've ordered one box of them from China, so at some point in future I'll find out for myself :)


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PostPosted: 14 Feb 2017, 23:21 
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dan wrote:
Has anyone tried the S40+ balls yet and if so, how do they compare to the Yinhe regular 3 star 40+ balls? Are they actually better or is it just marketing.

I've ordered one box of them from China, so at some point in future I'll find out for myself :)


I am playing with them now. Don't think they (red stamp) are that different from the original Yinhe 3* (blue stamp), but I did not do detailed analysis/measurement.

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PostPosted: 15 Feb 2017, 11:43 
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A few clubs here use them (first the old one, now the new ones), and they're quite happy... the durability is excellent, certainly compared to the seamed plastic balls.

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2017, 23:36 
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Some people in Houston are using the Yinhe seamless. They are good.

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2017, 23:38 
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I've been using Yinhe Red for a few weeks now. Better than the blue one for me and my friends at the club. All prefer the red one. Just slightly lighter than Nittaku Premium. Very durable as well.

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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2017, 03:25 
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Today I had a tap with the Yinhe S40+ ball and I have to say it feels lighter than the older blue logo ball. Also it has some odd bounce? like a lower bounciness ? On one underspin serve the ball literally rolled flat on the table. There wasn't any dust or water on the surface and the table is a Donic ITTF competition certified table less than 1 year old.

So I am skeptical on the QC of these Yinhe Red packet 3-star plastic balls. Old Blue packets are very very brittle and feel a lot harder and very very weak.

I will keep practicing with this Red one and see how quickly I can get it to break.

Update: I will try to get the Yinhe Red and the older Blue weights and post here.


Last edited by man_iii on 23 Mar 2017, 12:25, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2017, 07:20 
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rokphish2 wrote:
I've been using Yinhe Red for a few weeks now. Better than the blue one for me and my friends at the club. All prefer the red one. Just slightly lighter than Nittaku Premium. Very durable as well.


Did you actually weigh it or is your estimate of weight based on feel?

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 02:57 
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Baal wrote:
rokphish2 wrote:
I've been using Yinhe Red for a few weeks now. Better than the blue one for me and my friends at the club. All prefer the red one. Just slightly lighter than Nittaku Premium. Very durable as well.


Did you actually weigh it or is your estimate of weight based on feel?

Estimate on feel when using. Confirmed by several players other than me. Two of them didn't want to use it because they feel it lighter than the NP and we switched to use NP. Several others noted the difference but okay with it. I have about 4 boxes left of the Yinhe Red, and probably 1-2 boxes of NP somewhere if you want me to weight and compare.

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 08:47 
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You have to weigh them to know. Feel doesn't work very well. Actually if these new Yinhe balls were lighter than Nittaku Premium 40+ the ITTF wouldn't approve them. That is because Nittaku Premium 40+ is already at the absolute bottom of the allowable range (around 2.68 grams). For some reason, lots of players think they are heavy from their feel in play. I'm not sure why that is but it is a common impression, even in some cases from very good (professional) players. It might be the Nittakus are harder or because they fly a little faster so feel more solid. But they are definitely the lightest 40+ ball sold now based on actual weight measurements using a scale of sufficient accuracy and resolution.

Most seamless balls we have had since they were introduced are around 2.76 grams, which is right at the high end of what ITTF currently allows (all the requirements are laid out in something called ITTF Technical Leaflet T3). I have not tried the red Yinhe balls yet. If the new red ones are less than the 2.76 number, it could be that the seamless makers are trying to allow more margin for error for ITTF tests, or maybe they are trying to get the ball faster. It might make them feel a bit "floaty". I look forward to trying some.

By the way, I have the distinct impression that the Nittaku is lighter because its outer diameter is slightly less than seamless.

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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2017, 03:54 
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Yeah, I agree that to know for sure it needs to be weighted. But for practical reason, all the people that used and compared the two, not one said the Yinhe Red (several and not just one ball being used) feels heavier than NP when playing.

Having the real weight might show different stories, but I don't think they will change people's perception. Even if the Yinhe Red is actually heavier in weight, the people I mentioned earlier who refused to play with it and prefer NP, would still prefer NP.

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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2017, 06:26 
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I prefer the NP40+ too. I personally think it is a lot more like celluloid. And like your clubmates, knowing the weight would not change my opinion either. I think it is possible, though, that a slightly lighter seamless might be an improvement, but it is unlikely I would like it as much as NP40+, or the new D40+ ball from DHS, which is very similar to the NP40+ (not identical but very similar and a lot cheaper).

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