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PostPosted: 31 May 2016, 17:45 
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These are new balls from Yinhe:

Image

Does anyone know anything about them?

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PostPosted: 31 May 2016, 18:24 
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I saw it pop up on the ITTF list a few weeks ago, but that's all I know.

My guess is that we're heading into a situation where we will be offered "super" or "premium" versions of balls - slightly more expensive than the vanilla 3*, but with additional guarantees of roundness, hardness, whateverness. This was a common tactic with cell as well.


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PostPosted: 31 May 2016, 19:22 
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Already true with Kingnik.

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PostPosted: 31 May 2016, 19:32 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Already true with Kingnik.

Iskandar

A little different, as Kingnik offer a seamed and seamless. These ones from Yinhe are both seamless. Since XFS was the only one that made the seamless, perhaps they're offering two ranges now... which means we can expect the same thing from every other brand they supply.

Of course it might just be marketing, where they've come up with new material, so they're calling a a premium balls so they can charge more. :o :lol:

I'm not sure if Yin-he still offers the earlier balls as well... I'll ask...

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PostPosted: 31 May 2016, 20:05 
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Well given Yinhe has built their brand on being cheaper but still of good quality, I wonder if this theme will follow with their balls?

I've always found Yinhe products to have a less quality feel than higher price brands, although that has not been the case with the few cell balls I've used of theirs. Unless the balls break easily or bounce badly, I see no reason they should be lower quality than any other.

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PostPosted: 01 Jun 2016, 15:43 
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This is an interesting article from the ITTF website:
http://www.ittf.com/_front_Page/ittf_fu ... ition_ID=&

This implies the main seamless ball maker is Guangzhou Hefu Sport Equipment Company, not XSF.

It's very tricky to work out which company own the business and which ones just supply others...

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PostPosted: 01 Jun 2016, 18:24 
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haggisv wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
Already true with Kingnik.

Iskandar

A little different, as Kingnik offer a seamed and seamless. These ones from Yinhe are both seamless. Since XFS was the only one that made the seamless, perhaps they're offering two ranges now... which means we can expect the same thing from every other brand they supply.

Of course it might just be marketing, where they've come up with new material, so they're calling a a premium balls so they can charge more. :o :lol:

I'm not sure if Yin-he still offers the earlier balls as well... I'll ask...


No, I meant Kingnik already offers two grades of their seamless 3 star balls. The only visible difference is a sticker on the box (and an increase in price :lol: ).

Actually, all their three star balls are seamless, they do have that seamed ABS one star training ball.

haggisv wrote:
This is an interesting article from the ITTF website:
http://www.ittf.com/_front_Page/ittf_fu ... ition_ID=&

This implies the main seamless ball maker is Guangzhou Hefu Sport Equipment Company, not XSF.

It's very tricky to work out which company own the business and which ones just supply others...


Not in the least surprised... XSF would just be another brand, in that case, it's just that they were the first brand selling these balls. More interesting would be the status of Minkow (i.e. Kingnik). We know they WERE making the old celluloid balls - it beggars belief that they'd just shutter the whole plant and leave it idle to sell balls someone else makes. Maybe they've set up their own seamless ball machines under license, maybe they really are getting their balls from Guangzhou Hefu. Note that they're in a different city (Shanghai, ~1000 km distance) altogether, so they aren't "another name" for Guangzhou Hefu.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 01 Jun 2016, 21:43 
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iskandar taib wrote:
haggisv wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
Already true with Kingnik.

Iskandar

A little different, as Kingnik offer a seamed and seamless. These ones from Yinhe are both seamless. Since XFS was the only one that made the seamless, perhaps they're offering two ranges now... which means we can expect the same thing from every other brand they supply.

Of course it might just be marketing, where they've come up with new material, so they're calling a a premium balls so they can charge more. :o :lol:

I'm not sure if Yin-he still offers the earlier balls as well... I'll ask...


No, I meant Kingnik already offers two grades of their seamless 3 star balls. The only visible difference is a sticker on the box (and an increase in price :lol: ).

Actually, all their three star balls are seamless, they do have that seamed ABS one star training ball.

haggisv wrote:
This is an interesting article from the ITTF website:
http://www.ittf.com/_front_Page/ittf_fu ... ition_ID=&

This implies the main seamless ball maker is Guangzhou Hefu Sport Equipment Company, not XSF.

It's very tricky to work out which company own the business and which ones just supply others...


Not in the least surprised... XSF would just be another brand, in that case, it's just that they were the first brand selling these balls. More interesting would be the status of Minkow (i.e. Kingnik). We know they WERE making the old celluloid balls - it beggars belief that they'd just shutter the whole plant and leave it idle to sell balls someone else makes. Maybe they've set up their own seamless ball machines under license, maybe they really are getting their balls from Guangzhou Hefu. Note that they're in a different city (Shanghai, ~1000 km distance) altogether, so they aren't "another name" for Guangzhou Hefu.

Iskandar


At one point XSF was selling identical balls with different labels and packaging. Not sure what that was about or if they are still doing it. There was no discernible difference in how they played.

This of course means nothing with respect to whatever Yinhe is doing. Only way we will know if they are actually different with these s40+ balls is to try them.

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PostPosted: 01 Jun 2016, 22:24 
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Shanghai Minkow, who make seamless balls, Kingnik being the house label, is located in Shanghai. Here is their website, which indicates that they clearly have manufacturing capabilities for seamless and seamed balls and where they specifically state that they are the OEM for many other brands: http://www.minkow.com.cn/

But Guangzhou Hefu Sports Equipment Company is located in the Panyu district of the city of Guangzhou (the very large capital city of Guangdong province, in South China across from Hong Kong). This is very far (~ 1,500 km) from Shanghai. The only English language web presence for Guangzhou Hefu related to sports equipment seems limited to sites about import transactions for seamless balls into the US, such as this one: http://en.52wmb.com/s-guangzhou_hefu_sp ... nt/8066705 The only thing I could learn from clicking some of the links on that site is that Guangzhou Hefu exports balls to the US through the port of Newark, and that they created a company in the US called Hitoss LLC (High Toss, get it, the most distinguishing feature of Xu Shaofa when he was a player) to protect their trademark etc. XSF has a website in English that mentions their balls, and Mr. Xu Shaofa himself, but says nothing about where they make the balls, but not Guangzhou Hefu.

So what does it all mean? Are there now two factories making these balls? Certainly it seems possible by this time that the necessary machines to make seamless balls could be in more than one place, but could this explain differences in ball quality that we seem to see with XSF these days? Can this explain maybe how different materials could be used at different places?

The one thing that makes no sense to me is that you would make the balls in Shanghai but then export them out of Guangzhou (since 2011 the Port of Shanghai is currently the world's busiest container port). So I am leaning towards the idea that seamless balls are now made in more than one place.

I don't know the answers to the questions this all raises, and my guess is that they can only come from someone who can speak and read Chinese.

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PostPosted: 02 Jun 2016, 10:01 
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Baal wrote:
At one point XSF was selling identical balls with different labels and packaging. Not sure what that was about or if they are still doing it. There was no discernible difference in how they played.

This of course means nothing with respect to whatever Yinhe is doing. Only way we will know if they are actually different with these s40+ balls is to try them.


Not sure if you're talking about these, or another thing.

Image

When I made my rounds in China I was looking for the bottom version as it's the one I know/familiar with. Apparently they haven't seen this one. They are selling the top version. Supposedly the top one is for domestic market while the bottom one for international market.

As for Yinhe, they are releasing the new and improved version, which is red in color, special for international market (at least for now, they said). I forgot all the tidbits they're claiming the improvements are, I'll post them later. I'm still waiting in line to get some of the new balls. Too bad they haven't gotten them in stock when I was in China.

Edit: here the blurbs for Yinhe new S40+ (S=Super)

Image

Belongs to the fourth generation of the latest technology seamless ball , have a "blue star ball " ( third generation ) features , its durability is improved by about 10% , roundness , strength, resistance to a substantial reduction of more improve.

Samsung red ball of heat resistance increased about 15 degrees , and then after high temperature equatorial regions, especially when shipping containers for a long time in the sun , no longer deformed by pressing concave and other issues. Temperature increase , and correspondingly improved durability , durability is for you to save money , you having fun yet ?

In overseas markets, only the Galaxy brand signed a contract agent class customers to get the red Samsung, unsigned Agent ordinary customers can only get blue Samsung. In the domestic market , local agents can also get red Samsung, but because of production constraints , only in a limited manner on sale in the short term .

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PostPosted: 02 Jun 2016, 11:31 
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Baal wrote:
Shanghai Minkow, who make seamless balls, Kingnik being the house label, is located in Shanghai. Here is their website, which indicates that they clearly have manufacturing capabilities for seamless and seamed balls and where they specifically state that they are the OEM for many other brands: http://www.minkow.com.cn/


It doesn't actually say they MAKE seamless balls, though they do indeed sell them. They used to make celluloid balls, all those factory photos are the same ones they had on the web site from way before they were selling the Kingnik seamless balls. Doesn't mean they AREN'T making them, of course. I have asked them that question, and I've also asked them when they're coming out with an orange version, but they haven't didn't answer the questions (though they did reply to the email - we were setting up a ball order).

As you mention, it also boggles the mind if they're NOT making seamless balls but selling them wholesale like that, because Guangzhou is a long way away.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 02 Jun 2016, 11:32 
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rokphish2 wrote:
As for Yinhe, they are releasing the new and improved version, which is red in color, special for international market (at least for now, they said). I forgot all the tidbits they're claiming the improvements are, I'll post them later. I'm still waiting in line to get some of the new balls. Too bad they haven't gotten them in stock when I was in China.

Edit: here the blurbs for Yinhe new S40+ (S=Super)

Image

Belongs to the fourth generation of the latest technology seamless ball , have a "blue star ball " ( third generation ) features , its durability is improved by about 10% , roundness , strength, resistance to a substantial reduction of more improve.

Samsung red ball of heat resistance increased about 15 degrees , and then after high temperature equatorial regions, especially when shipping containers for a long time in the sun , no longer deformed by pressing concave and other issues. Temperature increase , and correspondingly improved durability , durability is for you to save money , you having fun yet ?

In overseas markets, only the Galaxy brand signed a contract agent class customers to get the red Samsung, unsigned Agent ordinary customers can only get blue Samsung. In the domestic market , local agents can also get red Samsung, but because of production constraints , only in a limited manner on sale in the short term .


Samsung??????? What does Samsung have to do with this?? :lol: (Probably machine translation..)

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PostPosted: 02 Jun 2016, 18:05 
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Yes I did Google Translate on it. Samsung means 3 stars

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PostPosted: 03 Jun 2016, 01:07 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Baal wrote:
Shanghai Minkow, who make seamless balls, Kingnik being the house label, is located in Shanghai. Here is their website, which indicates that they clearly have manufacturing capabilities for seamless and seamed balls and where they specifically state that they are the OEM for many other brands: http://www.minkow.com.cn/


It doesn't actually say they MAKE seamless balls, though they do indeed sell them. They used to make celluloid balls, all those factory photos are the same ones they had on the web site from way before they were selling the Kingnik seamless balls. Doesn't mean they AREN'T making them, of course. I have asked them that question, and I've also asked them when they're coming out with an orange version, but they haven't didn't answer the questions (though they did reply to the email - we were setting up a ball order).

As you mention, it also boggles the mind if they're NOT making seamless balls but selling them wholesale like that, because Guangzhou is a long way away.

Iskandar


ssandy who is associated with XSF (possibly the daughter of the owner?) made it clear on a thread here a year or so back that they have big issues with the Minkow plant. My guess is that they are making them there too and that this is a big ugly mess, which in the US would be settled in a nasty court case, but in China, who knows?

I will be very interested to see what the newest generation of seamless balls will be like. They have in general always been reasonably good, although some people are concerned about recent roundness of XSF branded balls.

Rokphish, back in the early days, I had purchased XSF balls with both of those labels, and also ones with red labels that had not been ITTF approved. I thought they are identical except for the label. I liked the nifty tube the red ones came in, but probably that packaging was too expensive.

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PostPosted: 03 Jun 2016, 13:35 
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I guess we're going to have to wait and see what these new Yin-he ones are like... and we still won't know which factory they came out off.

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