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 Post subject: Re: KINGNIK 40+ balls
PostPosted: 26 Jan 2017, 09:54 
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Yeah, apparently a lot of these Kingniks were actually over 41mm! So there's clearly a problem, either with that batch in particular, or the quality control. My main tests are done, and I'll post the results soon - I still haven't done the horizontal sway test.

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 Post subject: Re: KINGNIK 40+ balls
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2017, 03:42 
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This is the latest list of approved balls.

http://www.old.ittf.com/stories/Picture ... 3_2017.pdf

Joola sells two plastic 40+ balls with their name on it. The Joola Flash is seamless and is made by XSF, it has an all-blue label and it says China on the ball. The Super P has a seam, is made of cellulose acetate, and is a re-branded version of the plastic ball DHS has been selling for last few years. Even though it sometimes says Germany on the ball, they are made in China. Those two balls play very differently.

Balls with a large P? Probably Palio. A good seamless ball. There aren't any that I know of that have just a P though (certainly none from Tibhar).

On the ITTF website above, the approval code for each ball has four numbers at the end in this form XX/YY that signify the day the balls were approved.

The plastic seamed balls with middle-2016 approval dates are probably ABS balls like the new DHS D40+ (and the Nittaku Premium that came out in 2014). And so it looks like quite a few companies will be selling those pretty soon. This includes Double Fish, Donic, and TSP. Interestingly, Nittaku will soon be selling something they call the NSD40+, which will be an ABS ball made in China by DHS. Even dating back to celluloid days, Nittaku always had an arrangement whereby they would re-brand some balls made by DHS (those were always cheaper) and it looks like that will continue. You could tell the difference on the ball and box by whether it said Japan or China on it.

Sometimes balls are approved quite a few months before they are generally available to be purchased. The new DHS D40+ was approved over a year and half ago, and for most of that time only the CNT had access to them, and even now you can only buy they from Chinese websites (for another month or so, then TT11 will have them).

Edit added: This older ITTF site has pictures of the balls too. http://old.ittf.com/_front_page/ittf1.a ... gory=balls
You can see that sometimes the same ball is sold by the same company with more than one label (based on approval code), but latest version of the T3 Bulletin says ITTF is not going to allow that anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: KINGNIK 40+ balls
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2017, 11:29 
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As an aside - is there a way to get directly to the equipment pages without having to navigate back to the old site??

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 Post subject: Re: KINGNIK 40+ balls
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2017, 20:37 
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birchamboi wrote:
Kingnik is a rebranded Xushaofa. All the seamless balls are produced in the same factory. I play with both brands and can't pick any difference whatsoever. When I purchased the Kingniks, they were cheaper than the XSF.

According to this page (link) it is the other way around. Kingnik is the maker's brand (the maker is Shanghai Minkow Co.), and XuShaoFa is the rebranding. This may also explain why Kingnik is cheaper.


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 Post subject: Re: KINGNIK 40+ balls
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2017, 21:10 
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I've had a training ball 'Three Star P' just recently with a big P on it, it's a rebranded seamless at about $50 for 144 balls afair, similar to Joola Flip.
Good chance it's the same P-ball I've seen at the tournament early in January/

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 Post subject: Re: KINGNIK 40+ balls
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2017, 01:19 
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keme wrote:
birchamboi wrote:
Kingnik is a rebranded Xushaofa. All the seamless balls are produced in the same factory. I play with both brands and can't pick any difference whatsoever. When I purchased the Kingniks, they were cheaper than the XSF.

According to this page (link) it is the other way around. Kingnik is the maker's brand (the maker is Shanghai Minkow Co.), and XuShaoFa is the rebranding. This may also explain why Kingnik is cheaper.


It has been hard to find the truth about the actual relationship between Minkow and XSF. Is Minkow the OEM for XSF or is it a separate operation that also produces seamless balls, along with many other kinds of balls, including celluloid (I have no secret knowledge but very strongly suspect Minkow is the OEM, as this post suggests). Some of the confusion came from a person who was posting here for awhile by the name of ssandy who claimed to be a representative of XSF (very likely the daughter of Xu Shao Fa himself, who runs a lot of his TT business operations). It is the internet. Who knows?

The Kingnik balls I got to try, just one box of their premium version, were exactly the same as XSF. I do know that the way a lot of this stuff works is the company that puts their name on balls is responsible for the QC checking. By the way, in 2014 nearly every plastic ball was considerably over the ITTF size/weight limits, and ITTF was allowing relaxed standards because they were desperate to have some plastic balls on the market. So the Kingniks were not alone in being over the weight/size limits, although bear in mind they have always sold two brands of seamless balls). The ssandy person made a number of posts here crowing about at some point that XSF was the first company to actually meet all of the final XSF standards (the ones we have now). And that was true until Nittaku Premium 40+ came out, which were actually on the complete other end of the scale (at 2.68 grams, almost too light).

By the way, I agree with pretty much everything those Equipment Junkie guys wrote about balls.

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Last edited by Baal on 20 Mar 2017, 01:47, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: KINGNIK 40+ balls
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2017, 01:24 
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Red wrote:
I've had a training ball 'Three Star P' just recently with a big P on it, it's a rebranded seamless at about $50 for 144 balls afair, similar to Joola Flip.
Good chance it's the same P-ball I've seen at the tournament early in January/


Most of the seamless balls sold at that price range in the US are training balls. People here may have seen the IPong balls and other seamless sold as 1*. Because they aren't approved by ITTF, they don't show up on any of their websites. I find them all really strange and don't like to use them for really, anything. I haven't seen one with a big P, so can't say for sure if it is the same thing but the price suggests it.

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