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 Post subject: Re: ABS balls in orange
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 21:17 
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Minkow now has 1* ABS orange training balls under the Kingnik label:

Image

An ABS two color training ball is also available:

Image

They also have pink, green, and yellow:

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Their product page:
http://www.minkow.com.cn/Table-tennis-series


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 Post subject: Re: ABS balls in orange
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2018, 14:53 
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21 cents each for these.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100pcs- ... autifyAB=0


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 Post subject: Re: ABS balls in orange
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2018, 16:42 
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Of the balls pictured above, I see yellow the best.

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 Post subject: Re: ABS balls in orange
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2018, 20:27 
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EARLY BIRD ..

Double Fish has recently made an attempt to gain ITTF approval for their orange balls. No luck so far.
Despite not being awarded official approval, DF did started out, in the late 2017, their orange balls on market inside China. This is an apparent abuse of ITTF Approval Regulations, anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: ABS balls in orange
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 23:54 
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i dont get why would you need ITTF approval to sell the tt balls...

is it really the rule? how would they enforce it?

you buy some xy shitty balls from the local supermarket to play in your garden on the concrete table, and you say it is not allowed?
if that is the case it is ridiculous... :?:

if it is the rule that you must have an ITTF certified ball for the ITTF tournament, that is totally reasonable, but all else is plain stupid if true...

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 Post subject: Re: ABS balls in orange
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 01:07 
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111Iceman111 wrote:
i dont get why would you need ITTF approval to sell the tt balls...

I assume because they have the ITTF markings on them. They are trading off an approval that they don't have.


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 Post subject: Re: ABS balls in orange
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 18:29 
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yourock88 wrote:
I hear in Japan only Nittaku is producing this large ball. Yet TSP large ball looks different, maybe sourcing from China?

NIitaku is most expensive blade . i don't see it ever.


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 Post subject: Re: ABS balls in orange
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 19:59 
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111Iceman111 wrote:
i dont get why would you need ITTF approval to sell the tt balls...


You don't. If you did you wouldn't see all these weird off-brands on ebay. What you wouldn't be able to do is hold a ITTF-sanctioned tournament that used the non-ITTF approved balls.

Same deal with non-JTTA blades and rubbers and whatnot being sold in Japan - I don't see how JTTA could prevent their importation and sale. They COULD prevent people from using them in (JTTA sanctioned) tournaments, but that opens up the possibility of retaliation. So I think it's yet another urban (or sporting?) myth.

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 Post subject: Re: ABS balls in orange
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 21:35 
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rsilvers wrote:
111Iceman111 wrote:
i dont get why would you need ITTF approval to sell the tt balls...

I assume because they have the ITTF markings on them. They are trading off an approval that they don't have.
I see... That make sense than...

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 Post subject: Re: ABS balls in orange
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 22:17 
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NON STANDARD BALL ?

Image

i d like to hear actual specifications of those DF balls. --weight and size measured with decent accuracy.
I strongly suspect this V40+ Ball disobey ITTF current size specifications.
From this photo the ball looks somewhat undersized, of the same size as the cellulloid. Just by sight, I would estimate its outer diameter at 39.9 mm, out of the statutory 40.1-40.5mm range, and it is most likely the reason that ITTF has denied this ball of official approval.


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 Post subject: Re: ABS balls in orange
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 22:31 
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Orange balls fail for a reason, to get the balls sufficient shade of orange it changes the hardness outside of ITTF parameters, specifically on the seam and many times on the poles. Even the BEST samples step outside the parameters and regular production has very little chance of even a 10% acceptable rate. This may change but for now it is a fact. This may change with improved material chemistry. The ABS orange 3 star balls on the market are not bad but totally outside of hardness parameters. As we have went through both OEM (getting a manufacturer to rubber stamp an existing ball for my brand) and we have made our own ball with our own testing and chemistry, I have "been there and done that with this process". Around the 20th we will have an independently approved synthetic w seam ball on the ITTF list, and I do not foresee an orange, even if we can put together a passing test sample for the ITTF regular production would fall too far outside of hardness.

An example of failed hardness:

Too (hard or soft) on the seam, i.e. the indentation of any
of the 24 balls is much (smaller or larger) than the minimum
allowed (0.72). Second, three out of the 24 balls are also too (hard or soft) on the
poles

Tom

EDIT: That I think major players like DHS DF have a legitimate opportunity to make orange ITTF balls work as these companies can absorb the cost of formulation and ITTF fees. Small companies sell the first 70,000+-20K balls each year just to cover the cost of ITTF re occurring fees.


Last edited by zeropong on 11 Jan 2018, 05:35, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ABS balls in orange
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2018, 02:13 
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That is super helpful. If I ever buy cheap balls that I never intend to play with for anything serious, I should get orange so that they never are confused with the good balls.


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 Post subject: Re: ABS balls in orange
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2018, 02:48 
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igorponger wrote:
NON STANDARD BALL ?

Image

i d like to hear actual specifications of those DF balls. --weight and size measured with decent accuracy.
I strongly suspect this V40+ Ball disobey ITTF current size specifications.
From this photo the ball looks somewhat undersized, of the same size as the cellulloid. Just by sight, I would estimate its outer diameter at 39.9 mm, out of the statutory 40.1-40.5mm range, and it is most likely the reason that ITTF has denied this ball of official approval.


I really doubt the size is the problem. Why make them on a separate production line from the white balls? I think Zeropong's explanation is better. As the guy in the "Le Mouche in the soup" joke says, "You've got bloody good eyes." :lol:

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: ABS balls in orange
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2018, 03:29 
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zeropong wrote:
Orange balls fail for a reason, to get the balls sufficient shade of orange it changes the hardness outside of ITTF parameters, specifically on the seam and many times on the poles. Even the BEST samples step outside the parameters and regular production has very little chance of even a 10% acceptable rate. This may change but for now it is a fact. This may change with improved material chemistry. The ABS orange 3 star balls on the market are not bad but totally outside of hardness parameters. As we have went through both OEM (getting a manufacturer to rubber stamp an existing ball for my brand) and we have made our own ball with our own testing and chemistry, I have "been there and done that with this process". Around the 20th we will have an interdependently approved synthetic w seam ball on the ITTF list, and I do not foresee an orange, even if we can put together a passing test sample for the ITTF regular production would fall too far outside of hardness.

An example of failed hardness:

Too (hard or soft) on the seam, i.e. the indentation of any
of the 24 balls is much (smaller or larger) than the minimum
allowed (0.72). Second, three out of the 24 balls are also too (hard or soft) on the
poles

Tom

EDIT: That I think major players like DHS DF have a legitimate opportunity to make orange ITTF balls work as these companies can absorb the cost of formulation and ITTF fees. Small companies sell the first 70,000+-20K balls each year just to cover the cost of ITTF re occurring fees.


Really interesting! Does it mean that orange celluloid balls were softer as well, or is chemistry different enough for ABS?

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 Post subject: Re: ABS balls in orange
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2018, 05:32 
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"Really interesting! Does it mean that orange celluloid balls were softer as well, or is chemistry different enough for ABS?"

I am not versed on the hardness readings of cell balls, however the balls did differ from orange to white, at least in the Double Fish brand.

On a side note:
At the open two JR's were hanging around the Gambler and the Newgy booth ...none had ever played with a cell ball :) So I guess they are really dead, at least at the club/event level


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