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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2019, 22:23 
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Blade: Donic Waldner Carbon Sens
FH: Rhyzm-P
BH: Xiom Omega IV Europe
Introduction:

Hey guys, recently I've purchased a new bat since my previous one was about 6 years old. When purchasing a new bat, I had in mind that I wanted it to be slightly more powerful than my previous one.I've been playing with my new bat for about 2 months now, and it is much more powerful than my previous bat. I liked it at first, but I also noticed the amount of focus and effort I had to put to return the balls consistently.



Some information about myself:I would label myself as a medium skilled player, at about 1300 rating. I've been playing for 2-3 years, with 2 trainings per week on average. I am 21 years old. My play style is fairly all-round to the offensive side. I can comfortably serve, shove, spin and block. But I intend to become stronger at offense.


Current situation:

So yesterday, a beginner player at my club purchased a new bat, and I asked if I could try it. His bat was noticeably lighter than my own and I played some rallies. Wow, I was so surprised. Suddenly playing regular forehand in the diagonal seemed like child's play. So much more consistency and control than I have with my own bat! Then we switched to opening and looping. Once again I felt totally in control of the openings and looping style that had been quite difficult before.



I tried another one of my friend's bats also. It was a carbon blade, but much lighter than mine. I am not quite sure about his rubbers, but I felt like I had much more control again than with my own bat! Especially the serves. I could suddenly serve much shorter again, similar to what I could with my older bat. Also the opening and blocking seemed much more precise. I was baffled about the fact that with a random bat that I've never played with before, I can play much more consistently and comfortably than with my own bat that I train with twice a week!


Conclusion:

I am quite sure that my own newly purchased bat can play spinnier and harder-hitting balls, but I really don't know if the lack of consistency is worth it.Should I switch the new rubbers onto my old blade, or stick with the carbon blade? Or should I be looking to go for an entirely new setup? Am I not ready for 2.0 mm rubbers, or is that not the problem? Should I stop complaining and just keep playing to the best of my ability? I am hoping you can give me some advice on what to do. I spend quite a bit of money on my new bat, so I'm trying to not to spend too much more unless it is really needed.I will list the specifications, as far I know them, down below:



My old bat:

Blade: https://revspin.net/blade/donic-appelgren-allplay.html (wood only, no carbon)
Forehand Rubber: Xiom Vega Asia, thickness 1.8mm (guess)
Backhand Rubber: Xiom Vega Asia, thickness 1.8mm (guess)


My new/current bat:

Blade: https://revspin.net/blade/donic-waldner-senso-carbon.html (Carbon blade, Waldner senso) ( I am quite sure this website has listed the layers wrongly, I've been informed that this is actually a 7-layer blade, instead of 5 layer.)
Forehand Rubber: Rhyzm-P, thickness 2.1mm
BackHand Rubber: Xiom Omega IV Europe, thickness 2.0mm



My beginner teammate's bat:

Blade: I don't know the exact blade, but I know it is 5-layer Plywood (wood only, no carbon)
Forehand Rubber: A regular rubber I think, thickness 1.9mm
Backhand Rubber: A regular rubber I think, thickness 1.7mm



If you seek more specific information regarding this bats, such as pictures or missing data filled in, I can try to acquire more specific data


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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2019, 22:51 
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Swap the rubbers between the two bats and see how they both feel then. It's generally a good idea to change one thing at a time ( blade or rubber) so you can judge the result.

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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2019, 23:24 
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Blade: S&T Black & White
FH: Aurus Select 1.9
BH: Keiler 1.5
The problem you have created is that you have gone up in speed of both your blade and even more so the rubbers bearing in mind your old Xiom rubbers would also have lost a lot of their original speed.

In addition you have created quite a heavy bat which it sounds like it does not suit you. If head heavy adding some weight to the bottom of the handle may help the balance. If you have access to a scales compare the weight of your old bat to the new one..

It would also be good idea to find out and let us know exactly what blade and rubbers including sponge thickness, was in the two bats you said you liked much better than yours.


Last edited by ChasFox on 24 Feb 2019, 19:31, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 24 Feb 2019, 03:10 
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The scuttlebutt around here is that carbon blades are to be avoided for beginners, since they are, in general, too fast. A ALL to ALL+ wood blade would be the best. There are lots out there, but I highly recommend this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SANWEI- ... 84830.html

Rubbers? If you want European ones get soft tensors - something like Baracuda or Rakza 7. Or just get a pair of sheets of Batwings.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-sh ... 56861.html

Or buy a pre-assembled version of the blade I mentioned earlier.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SANWEI- ... 74001.html

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 24 Feb 2019, 06:47 
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Blade: Hurricane Long 3
FH: DHS Hurricane 8
BH: Tibhar MX-P
Nothing wrong with the Appelgren Allplay. Try new rubber on that.

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DHS H301 Blade/DHS Hurricane 3 Nat/Loki GTX Pro
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PostPosted: 24 Feb 2019, 14:40 
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Just noticed.

>Blade: https://revspin.net/blade/donic-appelgren-allplay.html (wood only, no carbon)
>Forehand Rubber: Xiom Vega Asia, thickness 1.8mm (guess)
>Backhand Rubber: Xiom Vega Asia, thickness 1.8mm (guess)

Get the same rubber with max sponge. That ought to fix it.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 24 Feb 2019, 18:26 
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Pound the hate button on me now and get it done with, but I'll be frank.

It really isn't gunna matter much right now. Play with whatever you feel good with. but take note, once you play with a setup for a spell and try someone else's bat, you may like it right away and maybe get it... then after a month, you are same or worse off. Why? The player's fundamental skills needed in the sport are likely not improved by this bat or that. (although an appropriate bat makes it easier to do most things)

Unless you are getting effective coaching for continuous years, you are not going to get a decent foundation to grow and grow as you can. Sure, you can improve just by playing better players and hearing this tip or the other and learn from TT forums. Yet, you are going to be deficient in so many ways it is gunna be silly.

There are arguments for and against faster gear or slower middle of the road gear. The pundits mostly say gear too fast will not encourage or reward you for proper strokes, but kinda reward crappy half-azz one. The pundits say that the slower stuff will force you to swing more proper to get the job done. Some people say it is easier to operate with faster equipment for some or most of what they do. If what they do is poke at the ball, sure. I mostly agree with the pundits on those points, but add on that it doesn't matter, since a player without effective coaching is gunna be so ate up on reading spin, judging depth, footwork, strike zone management, stroke mechanics, touch, serves, serve return, tactics, and whatever other metric you can measure... such a player without coaching is gunna be jacked up compared to the same player receiving effective coaching for years...

So, I say have at it and feel good, spend bucko bucks for months on end, the equipment sellers will love you. I also say you could keep what you have and simply start taking lessons from an effective coach if you are lucky to have a real club near you and even luckier to find a coach who can show you what is what.

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PostPosted: 24 Feb 2019, 20:03 
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Well said :up:

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Defense Blade with pimples on one side ...


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PostPosted: 24 Feb 2019, 22:05 
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iskandar taib wrote:
The scuttlebutt around here is that carbon blades are to be avoided for beginners, since they are, in general, too fast. A ALL to ALL+ wood blade would be the best. There are lots out there, but I highly recommend this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SANWEI- ... 84830.html

Rubbers? If you want European ones get soft tensors - something like Baracuda or Rakza 7. Or just get a pair of sheets of Batwings.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-sh ... 56861.html

Or buy a pre-assembled version of the blade I mentioned earlier.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SANWEI- ... 74001.html

Iskandar


The m8 (I'm talking about,JUST the blade, not rubbers) on all the above links, differ from each other ... Why so ? Are these different variations ?

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Setup 1 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 2 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 3 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 4 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Reactor Corbor (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2019, 02:29 
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They're all the same blade. The old face design was the big red M8, it's hard to find those any more. The new one says "Junior", and also says "OFF+" (which is an honest to goodness typo where you'd least expect a typo). The handle colors have changed over the years, the current handles are blue.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 15 May 2019, 10:56 
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This is the problem with starting on all+ blades. You develop a technique that involves lots of arm motion and thick contact in order to get power from it. You learn to 'catch loop'. Then you move to a faster, stiffer bat where you can't do that and send all the balls long. So now you need to re-develop your technique to remove unnecessary arm motion, a thinner contact by default and different bat angles.

WSC is not a fast blade, the new bat isn't that fast. Stick with it and re-develop your technique. Sometimes a slow bat can hinder your progress and sabotage your technique. It's just less common than having a fast bat and sabotaging your technique.


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PostPosted: 15 May 2019, 14:58 
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I've heard the argument the other way around. The problem with learning with fast equipment is that you end up developing short, gimpy strokes, because when you hit harder they end off the table. Remember that looping isn't the entire game, you also need control over the table.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 15 May 2019, 18:01 
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Blade: Andor Ligna ALL+
FH: DHS Hurricane 8 soft max
BH: Tibhar Grass D.Tecs 0.6
I think the Donic Apelgren is ok. Waldner is a bit faster, but has less control as it is harder (carbon).
I have an ALL+ donic frame that felt much beter the the waldner .... it felt way slower .. felt .. as numbers would indicate it should have been faster.

I think you should ask what rubbers where on that bat. there is no regular rubber .....
Everybody has different feel with their bat. It all depends on what YOU like and feel good with.

The xiom is not slow also, but old so you lose grip and speed. I change rubbers twice a year.
As I have two identical frames I have one bat for matches, and after the season I move those rubbers to my second bat what I use for training. And do this tiwce a year.

Looking at your new rubbers there is no big difference in them.
My stpes would be 1) try to put the new rubbers on the old frame. 2) check what the borrowed rubbers and are and try those

Sometimes it can take a long time before you have a setup you like and fits you.
But when you have a setup you feel good with .. stick with it for a longer time

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PostPosted: 16 May 2019, 09:33 
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iskandar taib wrote:
I've heard the argument the other way around. The problem with learning with fast equipment is that you end up developing short, gimpy strokes, because when you hit harder they end off the table. Remember that looping isn't the entire game, you also need control over the table.

Iskandar


It's not black and white, as in fast vs slow blades. Both arguments are correct. Avoiding fast blades doesn't mean you need to go to an all+ blade, as well as avoiding slow blades doesn't mean you need to go for an off+ blade.


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PostPosted: 22 May 2019, 03:45 
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WorkoutMontage wrote:
This is the problem with starting on all+ blades. You develop a technique that involves lots of arm motion and thick contact in order to get power from it. You learn to 'catch loop'. Then you move to a faster, stiffer bat where you can't do that and send all the balls long. So now you need to re-develop your technique to remove unnecessary arm motion, a thinner contact by default and different bat angles.


Actually, if you think about it.. if you're developing sufficient power from your ALL+ equipment, why would you need to "move to a faster, stiffer bat" in the first place?

Iskandar


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