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 Post subject: Throw angle
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2012, 08:05 
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I dont understand the term "throw angle" completely. Can someone tell me a bit more, like the advantage of a low or high throw of a rubber?

Thx.

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 Post subject: Re: Throw angle
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2012, 08:12 
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Throw angle is a relative term. If you are used to using a certain rubber, then switch to a different rubber, the ball might tend to go high, (high throw) or it might tend to go low, (low throw). This is relative to the last rubber you used.
Some rubbers are known to be relatively high or low throw.
Tacky rubbers "tend" to be high throw but that is not a hard and fast rule.
Thicker sponge usually raises the throw. (inverted rubbers)
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 Post subject: Re: Throw angle
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2012, 16:55 
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It what makes the shape of the arc the ball flys in. Low throw rubbers have a lower and longer arc shaped like a Archery Bow that isn't drawn back, a high throw rubber flies more like a drawn Bow.

The advantages of a high throw rubber are, usually more spin (there are exceptions and reasons why not), the higher arc means the balls sees more of the table and makes missing the table not very likely because it's coming almost straight down like a bomb. Low throw rubbers reach the other player more directly and are usually faster, they are less spinny by nature but also because they reach the other player faster they tend to lose less spin during their trip, there is not so much spin on the ball by the time it reaches you if it's hit with a high throw rubber like T05 but the immense spin early in it's flight causes a huge arc makes it a safe flight. If you watch Henzel from side on in person his T05 dips so suddenly over the net and drops within a foot or two of the net, it's very abnormal how much it dips even for T05, impressive but because of the angle it comes down on it's never going to be as powerful to the end opponent as a lower flight rubber.

Disadvantages of a high throw rubber are greater spin reactivity (not good for learners), disadvantages for the low throw rubber is you only have a very small margin for error clearing the net and landing the ball on a table which the ball can't see much of.

Because low throw rubbers have a greater degree of difficulty you usually want to use them on a blade which is bendy and high throw. High throw rubbers can be used with good effect on stiffer and composite blades where low throw rubbers don't work so good at all on those blades.

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 Post subject: Re: Throw angle
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2012, 19:06 
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just wondering.... do you guys judge the throw of your rubber based on a loop/topspin?
This is what I tend to do, but I see some who simply throw the ball at a stationary racket and see how high it bounces.

Oh and low throw rubbers are not always less spinny- H2 is a spin monster! :rock:

Your baracuda's have one of the highest throw angles that a rubber can possibly have

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 Post subject: Re: Throw angle
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2012, 20:44 
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Yes H2 is one of the spiniest rubbers on the planet and also one of the lowest throw, quite the anomaly !. Seriously thinking about switching back to it for next season if I can find a good sheet. Benduo, yes judged from a loop. Throwing the ball at a blade tends to show up how flat the blade itself bounces more than anything else I think. I have a few blades that all loop the same more or less but one of them doesn't know what is a pop up, the ball always comes off it flat when pushing, Some woods are just like that but it doesn't effect the blade when you are looping because then it's the blade bending you are looking for.

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 Post subject: Re: Throw angle
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2012, 00:58 
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To foam, who said:
"disadvantages for the low throw rubber is you only have a very small margin for error clearing the net and landing the ball on a table which the ball can't see much of"

If I want to keep the ball low at height "x", and I want to hit with forward speed "y" and topspin rotation "z", then I just open the blade with the low throw rubber (sweeping upward) and close it with the high throw rubber (driving forward). The flight of the ball should be identical after it leaves the blade, right? Supposing I have made this adjustment, would you please try to explain what disadvantage if any remains for the low-throw setup?

I like a low-throw setup because there is a wider separation between the part of my strike that produces forward motion and the part that causes rotation.
Also, what I must do to counter my opponent's spin is clearer to me; it's just a counter-angle that I add to whatever else I'm doing; I just take my shot with this added angle, an angle opposing whatever spin he applied.

I think part of the reason why many say that it's hard to "open" backspin with a low-throw setup is because it takes an alien stroke (but not one that is physically difficult): the paddle sweeps upward with the face opened so far that it's facing a little upward. (This is just an upward sweep with the "added angle" I mentioned in the previous paragraph.) But to a beginner, driving forward with the blade facing downward is no less alien at first.

I think part of the reason why many say it's easier to play with moderately higher throw is just that it feels more natural to swing and hit with the hand traveling more forward than perpendicular to the desired flight.

To the original poster:
I bounce the ball off the table and smack it across with a big upward sweep with the blade face vertical. If the ball flies way up in the air it is high throw! The softest and flexiest blade I've tried, with the highest throw rubber, flew upward at a sharp angle (and it was hard to close the blade face far enough to make it fly flat), while with my hardest blade and hard rubber the ball zooms off practically horizontally!


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 Post subject: Re: Throw angle
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2012, 10:12 
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I can tell you from personal experience that I can easily keep the ball lower with a stiffer blade using lp - with the same stroke on a flexy blade the ball will curve up. IMO this is high throw and I think its more due to the blades flex. A slower flexy blade like instinct regular appears much faster to me when the flex kicks in.

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 Post subject: Re: Throw angle
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2012, 10:14 
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timeout, are you talking about choping?


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 Post subject: Re: Throw angle
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2012, 14:17 
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Yes HookShot.

When I use inverted rubbers I usually use "normal strokes" and I don't notice the throw as much, easier to adjust.

Lps right away I notice if it goes up or stays low on the CHOP.

But let's say its an open block with blade 90 to the table. Faster blades for me block lower and drop kinda shorter.. Slower blades block slower but go higher and longer-i think i have to close the blade even more which I dont like.

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 Post subject: Re: Throw angle
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2012, 14:57 
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Thats what I thought. But, there is more happening than just throw angle. When a ball curves up, it is from backspin.
With a slower blade, there is more dwell time letting the ball grab a little more causing it to go higher. (when blocking a loop)


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 Post subject: Re: Throw angle
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2012, 15:55 
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I have a Matsushita Pro with Feint OX LP and when open blocking at the table, the ball really goes up high, on a bell curve path. I'm sure there's plenty of underspin just from contact against top spin but most opponents will tell me that when I use faster blades, there is more "grab" on the backspin produced from what apperas to be a lower throwing, faster, harder blade.

I get alot of movement, I guess wobble, from a slower blade however...some of the best attackers admit to having more trouble with no spin.

If there is a stroke involved, of course, that is another thing...

What else could be involved asa factor? Just guessing here, woods, glueing, construction, or stroke?

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 Post subject: Re: Throw angle
PostPosted: 24 Dec 2012, 00:02 
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Different people are talking about different things and the terminology never gets settled.


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 Post subject: Re: Throw angle
PostPosted: 24 Dec 2012, 00:32 
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Zhaoyang, I think what foam is trying to say is that in general you get less spin with low throw rubbers. This less spin in turn results in less dip and therefore you can't hit the ball as high over the net for if you did there is a greater chance of the ball going off the end of the table. You could open your bat as you say and get the ball on but then you are restricted as to how hard/fast you can hit the ball.


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 Post subject: Re: Throw angle
PostPosted: 24 Dec 2012, 00:39 
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Zhaoyang wrote:

I think part of the reason why many say it's easier to play with moderately higher throw is just that it feels more natural to swing and hit with the hand traveling more forward than perpendicular to the desired flight.



That is one part of it, but the other part is that you want to lose less of your drive ability and you lose it the more your stroke is perpendicular to the ball flight path. It's paradoxical to some people, but high throw rubbers are good for driving the ball if it has underspin.

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 Post subject: Re: Throw angle
PostPosted: 24 Dec 2012, 03:39 
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this illustration shows two identical incoming topspin balls, one hit with a high throw angle rubber, the other a low throw angle rubber. the difference is REALLY obvious when you hit with these different rubbers!


Attachments:
throw-angle.jpg
throw-angle.jpg [ 60.27 KiB | Viewed 5009 times ]

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