OOAK Table Tennis Forum

A few things about these balls (Joola 40+ and Nittaku Made in China) re strange. You have to constantly remind yourself to wait, to not rush, wait for the ball to come to you. Otherwise you will find yourself constantly mis-hitting. But at the same time, when you drop back you have to be prepared to move forward quickly because these balls don't come out as far, and dead or slow balls drop like a rock. But just forcing yourself to stay closer to the table (for a spin oriented offensive player) doesn't seem to be the answer because you just end up not having any leverage on attack. I think we will all need to practice front and back movements more than we do now. You need to be cautious about when to go all out on a third ball attack too, because the ball may come back. The feel for returns of serve is strange too. The low bounce is really annoying I have to say, but I suppose we will all eventually get used to it. You have to stay low hitting these balls even more than now, it really punishes any lapse in that. It will certainly not be the end of looping players but at first these players will be frustrated. The impression you get from just looping balls and having someone block for you is that this is not really that big of a change. But once you start playing live points where all sorts of random things happen, you realize that your instincts are not honed for this ball, it is not ever quite where you think its going to be based on your opponents stroke and how fast it is moving when it first comes off his racket. The things I find most strange are not the reduction of spin; it is the trajectories of the ball flying through the air, and ESPECIALLY how the bounce of the ball is different from what I am used to. Especially on really slow balls without much pace, I am constantly expecting it to come out a bit further. On the other hand, when I succesfully wait on my swing and also correctly gauge the height of the ball, I can hit some devastatingly effect topspin shots, and I can stay in points a long time.

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Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

I found that the random bounce and sometimes unpredictable spin of this ball creates adjustment problems I find most frustrating to deal with. You can be blocking a looper with the more same racket angle when all of sudden your block goes long even though he has not changed his stroke. Sometimes it is because the ball has more spin, sometimes it is almost like the ball is dead. I did have to switch to a faster blade to compensate for the properties of this ball, which has helped to a degree. Glad I never sold my original Keyshot.

I don't mind missing (as much) when I know why I missed, but sometimes with these balls I had no idea what happened, or how in the world the ball ended up where it did given my opponent's stroke, the trajectory, apparent speed, etc. I definitely do not like that.

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Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

Admittedly based on a single session and a single ball, but I agree entirely with Baal's first post in this thread.

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Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

The bounce reminds me of playing against 40C long pips players. Since I play LP's a lot, the bounce seems normal.

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http://youtu.be/7cL7qkBIvnI

Bad workman quarrels with his tools, you know.
And good players have had no problem about the plastic.

I think just the same on the DHS balls

I guess you missed the threads at MyTT and Table Tennis Daily with two players in the top 100 (Baum and Keinath) complaining about these balls (except that you made comments on one of those threads). The guy I hit with today, a 5-time US champion who was once in the top 100 in the world doesn't care for them either, although he figures that they probably suit the way he plays. (He is generous with his time and knowledge---thanks again Jimmy, it is always a privilege and don't think I don't appreciate it!!!!!).

Here is the other point that needs to be made. All 6 of the Joola 40+ balls I bought last week have broken (!!), and all of the DHS ones we checked today are far from round, in contrast to DHS celluloids tested at the same time. Perhaps it is only a good player who can TELL when the balls are messed up. Perhaps playing with a ball that is not round does not matter to you.

One last thing, those tests on the Spanish video are not really adequate. In particular, if all you do is hit counters and loop and block from a stationary position you really can't tell much of anything (when I do that it seems like not big deal to use these balls), although what they say about gravity and spin is not inconsistent with my first comment here and I pretty much agree with it. Once you play more live points, then you can actually see there is more to it than just that. I think there will be some much more rigorous tests here at OOAK forum soon for members to see some of the quality control issues that arise.

Even if the durability and roundness issues are solved (and the Nittaku Premium 40+ I have used seems much better in terms of roundness and bounce), people need to know that they will have to make some adjustments----and more than would be immediately be obvious from just hitting some counters back and forth, which is generally not how real table tennis is played. I am trying to document my own impressions as I learn to play with these balls. To cite just one example, it is going to take some time for people to re-learn which serves are going to come out long enough to attack. Balls that look like they are going to be coming out nicely end up a lot shorter than you are expecting based on years of playing with celluloid 40 balls. Readjusting your reflexes and intuitions isn't going to happen in a couple of hours.

In other words, this thread is not about a workman blaming his tools, it is a workman describing how a new tool behaves. (You yourself, when not trolling incoherently, admit that the ball plays differently.) Don't underestimate how much time it will take to become comfortable with it. For now, the one thing I think people will not have is predictability if the balls are not round.

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Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

As for Mr. Mitz of Spain, he is clearly mistaken about the bounce of the current ITTF approved Xushaofa ball. That one actually bounces higher than current seamed polyballs such as DHS, Joola, etc. This is not just my experience, there are now several reports of this on various forums.

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Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

Baal: Did you find you could still curve the balls in the air, as well as with celluloid? When I tested the DHS seamless, the curve on the ball was a LOT less. I tested this when looping from mid-distance with a sidespin loop. Looping with lots of sidespin (including the 'around the net' loops) make for spectecular points, which would be a shame to lose.

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The trajectory is often a little bit straighter for sure, but sidespin loops are not that different. By that I mean that you will use them in the same context you do now, and if you time correctly, you will be able to hit a good shot. But be prepared for a higher likelihood that it comes back! In counterloops I often found the ball a little lower than I expected it to be, and then I would hit arcing loops because that was all I could do. You have to take a little pace off the ball then. You have to wait for the ball! DOn't rush! But at the same time, the ball will drop a little faster. Those two strange things are kind of in opposition to each other. It will take some getting used to, in other words figuring out optimum distance from table during a rally, when to move forward and when and how far to move back. But it is still offensive table tennis for me, like I said somewhere, not the end of the world, but not to be underestimated either.

For me, the biggest issue is the lower bounce, which comes into play a lot of different ways. I found the reduction in spin and speed less of an issue. Solve the bounce issue and I will be pretty happy. I will play again tomorrow with these balls and will try to keep an eye on that. Today I used celluloid.

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Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH