OOAK Table Tennis Forum

+1 on what Cobalt says.

Use what you want but you have asked a question in a forum, got a similar response from those who replied, and then rejected the advice in favour of what a manufacturer (who always bulls..t in their product specs) says and what online reviewers (many of whom can barely hold a bat) say.

Unless you are a wunderkind it is unlikely that you will not have issues regarding control. Control is not just a matter of hitting average balls from average opponents where you want - anyone can do that. It concerns being able to produce and handle a wide range of difficult shots - eg blocking heavy/powerful loops, returning sophisticated serves short, looping low balls with heavy backspin etc. To give you an idea of this: Samsonov, who arguably has the best control in the world, used a carbon blade for a while but went back to an all-wood blade because it gave him better control.

Anyway, best of luck with your choice.

Smartest person in the room syndrome.

You have more than enough resources to self correct if you really want to play this sport seriously. No player gets much better without some coaching and a good coach will influence your choice of equipment. Right now, buy.whatever you want. For what its worth, I started out with a Killerspin Jet 600. I never played a tournament with it but it served me well for 4 mths. Eventually, I has to trash it as I couldn't change the rubbers, I had coaching but went on an EJ spree that continues in a less virulent form till this day. I now use the same blade as Samsonov and conceptually similar rubbers (IMO), because he is my idol.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Unlike people from Stiga (and worse, Escalade the worst thing Stiga ever did to damage their reputation), none of us were trying to sell you anything. It's your money and you can do what you want, but people took the time to try to explain some pretty fundamental things to you, and I doubt very many will make the effort to reply to your posts in the future. Those things you were told did not come to us in a dream, it's based on pretty long collective experience about how these things perform and the kinds of equipment that beginner players really need to use to improve. One other thing, a normal meta-analysis would wdight the quality of the study and it is usually carried out by people familiar with the subject at hand. Just saying.....

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Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

OP's posts were *interesting*... On the bright side, sounds like he made his choice, by whatever method that he believes in (and many of us here obviously do not), so now it's up to actual playing experience to figure out whether it worked or not. It's probably better compared to what he has now.

X-Spin, if you decide to follow up in few weeks- would be very helpful to tell us about the level of your opponents and yours as well - sign up for a tournament to get actual rating. Also curious which club you go to - sounds like they have regular tournaments and plenty of high level players (you mentioned ex-national team members before), so some folks here might be familiar with it.

Anyway, good luck with your new paddle, have fun!


P.S. I kept thinking: this is what Sheldon Cooper would do if he took up TT...

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

The more and more I read this, the more this reminds me of someone who came to mytabletennis.net and started promoting Stiga Airoc as if he was an impartial reviewer and used multiple accounts to pretend that he had support from others about his claims. I am probably wrong, but the detailed comparison of Stiga rackets and the access to new ones is fairly ridiculous.

Zeio gave a term for this - it's a simple way of letting google promote your racket while pretending to be impartial as a reviewer.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

I haven't tried out the newer bats from Stiga but I seriously struggled getting thought that last post from the OP. Applying all sorts of figures to support the bat choice would make one question any scientist who uses metrics to backup up their findings.
Plenty of sayings about individuals believing their own ways and ignoring advice from those who are wiser / more experienced than others. Can't imagine that the carbon in that Stiga blade would give any decent feel and will most likely hamper any real game development.
Would strongly suggest to the OP not to waste any more time on the internet and have a coach in a reputable club or a respected TT supplier who has seen you play set you up.

Naah, man, I wouldn't suggest ANY of those. Check out these VIGILANTE bats on ebay:

http://stores.ebay.com/vigilantekillerspinandmore

In particuar the UHLFBEHRT(TM):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vigilante-ULFBE ... 1184561534



A LOT cheaper than those $80 ones. It's got a DOUBLE FORGED 7 PLY BLADE with a Spin Rating of 105, Speed of 120 and control of 105. With an Elasticity Rating of 92, that's 50% higher than the average which is 60.

Iskandar

Woah now, I think there has been a bit of a misunderstanding here.

I don't WANT to use one of these Pre-Made Rackets. Honestly, and I mean REALLY, I want to use a Custom-Made Racket. I was fully aware well before even posting here that a Customized Racket is very widely purported to very simply trump any pre-made racket.

I think there needs to be an understanding of where I'm coming from, and I think honestly I do think it has to do with my nature as a Scientist. You have to understand that as Scientists, we follow the EVIDENCE. Concrete evidence, numbers, things that you can actually point to and say, "LOOK, we have this data, and this data, all of which explicitly point to THIS." This is exactly where I think things got very muddy. In general, I think it is safe to say that if there is one thing that we absolutely, positively cannot stand - it's "wishy washy" crap. Just, crap. It is very frustrating - I think because we're a very straightforward group and we understand that in reality everything really does have straightforward answers. So this is where it becomes an issue in a world seemingly pretty unique to Table Tennis. There are tons of different opinions, even on the same product - that so significantly contradict each other that it makes it quite literally, virtually impossible to really feel comfortable putting yourself behind it. So if as a consumer, I'm looking for an answer, and there's 300 of them provided - HOW am I, as a complete amateur in this world of Table Tennis, supposed to actually discern WHICH is the CORRECT answer? I can't! What the hell? For every +1 one product receives by one user, it gets a -1 by another user.

By the very nature of the answer to the question: "[given my background, abilities as a player]" - receiving a metaphorical "million" different answers is a contradiction not of my question (it can't contradict itself by the very nature of it being the question), but rather a contradiction of the answers given. If somebody, for example, says Mark V is the best rubber, and then another person says that, for example, Yasaka Pryde is the best rubber, NEITHER can be said to be the correct answer because both contradict each other and thus, inherently refute each other by the very nature of them being different answers.

And now for a quick aside to address this point that, while I understand, couldn't help but take offense to:
NextLevel made a post where he stated literally nothing else other than an accusation that I'm an illegitimate member and poster who is only here to promote STIGA.
This is, obviously, ridiculous. For one, if you read my first post you would have seen that I mentioned THREE (3) Rackets. The third was by a completely unrelated (competitor) company - Killerspin. It was even in bold letters and underneath text that I enlarged so as to highlight. Second, and perhaps more importantly, regarding how my "access to new [rackets] is fairly ridiculous" and in-turn apparently suspicious - I point out a simple (true) fact that readily dismisses this paranoid conclusion. In the United States there's a national retail store by the name of "Big 5 Sporting Goods" that just so happened to carry both of those rackets, and they happen to have a location within 3-5 minutes of where I live, and right around the time that I created this thread they were on sale for basically ~$20 off each, so as a precaution I just went ahead and bought both the Pro Carbon and the Evolution while the sale was on "just in case." Before purchasing, I had asked a few employees (separately) what their return policy was if somebody wanted to try them out - they stated to me very readily (almost as if it was a normal thing) that "oh yeah no problem! Just so long as it's not damaged just bring it back in." I asked about the packaging, since it would obviously be opened, and they said that's not a problem either (apparently they have extra plastic packages for this kind of thing). If anybody here has a local Tennis (regular Tennis) shop, this is actually a regular thing given the technical nature of the sport so I guess I wasn't really surprised by this. Occasionally a Tennis (again, not Table Tennis) will charge a few cheap bucks (usually ~$3 or $5, though once while visiting elsewhere I saw it as high as $10.. but the 'rental period' was more than a day) to try out however many rackets you want to try out for a day or so, but most of the time it's free (they obviously win because people then tend to purchase at least one of the rackets, and/or Strings, that they tried from there). Anyways, so this was all I did. I then just simply brought them with me the next time I went to the local table tennis club location and tried them out.

Anyways, back on-topic - I thought I had clearly stated in my first, original post that I don't have an issue with Control, whatsoever. In my second post, I clearly mentioned that I used OTHER rackets as well. In fact, this was literally the very first sentence of my conclusion (I wanted it to be prominently clear). This included CUSTOM rackets. I thought this also should have been obvious (where the hell else would I be able to try out numerous OTHER rackets that I don't own but at a local club, where people, presumably obviously, generally at a higher frequency possess Custom rackets). So, at least for the rackets that I tried, I wasn't particularly crazy about any of them. This included the STIGA rackets, but as of the time I and my buddy (who has played with/against me more than anybody else) both felt like it most matched my playing style of very aggressive, fast, powerful, and technical. The technical aspect (which requires control) we both openly admitted was an issue at first with the Pro Carbon for the both of us (not so with the Evolution for either of us) (he curiously wanted to try out other rackets as well), but I could feel that I could very well get used to the racket. It simply, at the time, was such a vastly different racket than I was used to that I was aware that it simply being so much more powerful and faster than any other I had used was likely really what was throwing my control off - something that, as I previously stated, I feel that players are responsible for changing and overcoming. As I had stated to somebody in person, "I feel as though with this Pro Carbon, my floor is very low with this racket right now, but the ceiling is very high" ('floor' and 'ceiling' is something growing up playing I always heard used in Sports to basically indicate starting point and potential - somebody's "floor" is where they're starting at, i.e. where they're at currently, and somebody's "ceiling" is their potential, i.e. where they're expected to be able to reach). In other words, I could feel that while I'm sure if I were to look at my tape playing with it, it was garbage in terms of control (but crazy in terms of speed and power), the sheer advantages ("pros") of it elsewhere (speed, power, and mentionable spin) combined with an ability to overcome control issues once getting used to a racket seemed to mark it the clear winner. Any additive "speed", "power", and "spin" values I felt with other rackets didn't feel like they added up to a superior number. Lastly, I had no idea what racket I was using when I used them, I didn't know the Rubbers, Blades, nothing - I purposely didn't ask which I was using (so I actually had no idea when I was actually using the Pro Carbon or the Evolution) simply because I didn't want to have any potential for bias in my feelings of the rubber (or blade). For example, if somebody told me "okay you're using a Mark V rubber" I would've thought "oh wow this is the Mark V rubber I've seen so many times online!" and so, it would be possible that that influence my feelings of the rubber (or blade). I didn't want any of this. I wanted to simply use all of them, and then state afterwards "okay this one was best" (only then did I discover what I'd been using).

So, anyways, to me I thought the above method and reasoning was obvious (it's not a "rocket science" way of testing something).
When I asked the question - I was admittedly expecting a consistent answer. I gave my background, my abilities - I gave the parameters. What else does somebody really need to answer a question? You don't go to a Physician and tell them, "I don't feel well - solve my problem!" You tell them, "I don't feel well, my leg hurts, particularly around my upper thigh. I feel as though the pain is in the bone. What's the problem?" With the latter (second one), the parameters underlying the question have been given and thus, an answer can be given. If you thought "well the Physician would order tests" then you just further proved my point - the tests inform him of more parameters, they're not magic pieces of paper (test results) that he reads.

So, as any person should, I stated my parameters (ability and skills background) and posed the rest of the question to the community. Even if there were 20 people that replied, I expected a couple, maybe a few different answers, but the answers overall should have possessed a consistent one. In other words, there really should have been (if there was any sense of order to this 'Table Tennis world') one, possibly two, MAYBE (rarely) three feasible answers. Why? Because that's just the way the world works. If I, for example, ask somebody how to turn on a light bulb, I would expect the answers to be (in order):

1. Complete the circuit
2. Turn ON the switch

The answers I see in seemingly every thread where somebody asks "[What racket do you recommend?]" seem to mirror what happened in this one. Following my above example, it would have been as if I (or anybody else that's asked it), again asked "How do I turn on a light bulb?" The answers would look like this (no order whatsoever, fittingly):

1. Connect the circuit to a transceiver that communicates with it wirelessly utilizing standard Radio frequency waves
2. Connect the circuit to a transceiver that communicates with it wirelessly utilizing Infrared frequency waves
3. Connect the circuit to a transceiver that communicates via Bluetooth
4. Take the light bulb and dip it into an ionic solution and apply a current to it
5. Throw out the light bulb and drill a hole in the wall fitted with a water-filled bottle. The light from the sun will refract in and provide light. Sleep at night.
6. Connect the circuit to a battery powered by kinetic energy. Apply torque to the lever feeding into the circuit.
7. Fill the light bulb with a buffer solution containing Mitochondria, Glucose, Luciferin and Luciferase. Replace buffer solution as needed.

WHY? The answer is COMPLETE THE CIRCUIT! Three (3) words. And it doesn't involve creating an entirely different light system first (that wouldn't be lighting a "light bulb", by definition)!

To be clear, I'm not upset with any poster. I'm openly glad and happy that people posted, and very thankful for it. I think people are getting confused at this. I'm upset at the inconsistency that prevails. The people themselves aren't inconsistent, as to the best of each poster's knowledge they're all providing the CORRECT answers - the problem is that so often, virtually NONE of these people agree with each other. So by not agreeing with each other, every new poster, with their new answer, inherently is essentially saying that "the previous poster is wrong!" (as otherwise, WHY would there be a different answer).

Lastly (for this post), and I think perhaps most importantly, I will make this point:
The answer to my question in this thread, apparently, is this. I very clearly stated in my first post my background skills. I clearly mentioned that I'm a complete Offensive player, and seem to have very good control. In fact, I even made a special section titled "My Playing Style". Earlier in the post (under "My Background") I mentioned that my Biomechanics seem to not have any problem whatsoever (which is probably, or at least presumably to me, due to my background in competitive athletics all my life). My swing motion, follow-through, weight distribution, pre-load, afterload, weight shifts, etc. all seemed to naturally develop immediately to what is apparently how they're supposed to be (from feedback, watching numerous videos online, as well as competitions, including playing them in slow-motion). In other words, I'm a "Power" player that apparently is able to hit the ball very fast, and I'm very technical in that I have no issue with Control. I've been described by the club players as an "Advanced player" who has picked up the game very quickly. My physical ability is one thing, but I don't know the first damned thing about the equipment that's out there (though I understand the Physics, etc. of it all, which turns out to be very simple.. 5 plies vs 7 plies, thick vs thin, variable Inelastic vs Elastic blade layer compositions, the Magnus Effect and spin, etc...).

Nonetheless, these were the "ANSWERS" given to me.
Blades: FIFTY FOUR (54) different blades were literally suggested to me as answers.
Rubbers: FIFTY FOUR (54) different rubbers were suggested to me as answers.
>> This includes those found in the links graciously suggested by carbonman and Multispoke. I went through and read ALL of the pages meticulously (even though Multispoke's was literally 20 pages long). Amazingly, my numbers above do NOT even include all of the suggestions given in the links - as I explicitly did NOT count suggestions made for "Defensive" players (something I've been clear on that I'm not). Carbonman sort of warned me I suppose when he said "most of the suggestions in [this link] ..." before posting his 3 page thread, which was quickly followed by Multispoke, in the next post, linking to a 20 page thread.
>> for your convenience, in case you don't believe me, have a look at literally every single damned suggestion (yes, I wrote them all down, because I take everything seriously):

http://pastebin.com/HffUSBGY

Just looking at suggestions explicitly made in this thread however (ignoring those suggested via linkage), these were all the "ANSWERS":
Blades: ELEVEN (11) different blades are all the correct answer
Rubbers: NINE (9) different rubbers are all the correct answer

Regardless of ability, I'm new to this. I came asking for help on equipment. How the hell am I supposed to know which one is the correct answer? To try them all out would literally cost (yes, I looked up every single one's price too):
Blades: $601
Rubbers: $334 (or $668 if I put a rubber on both sides)
TOTAL COST = $935 to $1,269

Because I have nothing to fear and value transparency, here's a link for your convenience (particularly in case there's a fellow equipment newb reading this) outlining just the 11 Blades/9 Rubbers made in this thread: http://pastebin.com/Eu8SaFVe
NOTE: And this is only the cost for the 11 Blades/9 Rubbers explicitly suggested as the answers in this thread! It doesn't even include ALL of the 54 Blades and 54 Rubbers that were ALSO said to be the answers by endorsed links!

And let's not even get into what it would cost to try "this rubber" with "that blade" - all of the different possible permutations, oh my dear goodness...
And, again, let's not even think about what it would cost to, in addition, try all of the additional answers in the linked threads that were also suggested. Oh sweet Bill Gates that'd be insane.

In closing:
I want to repeat this one more time. I AM NOT UPSET WITH ANY POSTER IN THIS THREAD. I am appreciative of all of you, you guys are awesome!
What I'm upset with is the INCONSISTENCY that has prevailed yet again, with virtually every one of you contradicting each other. Why does the whole community do this, every time a thread like this occurs? It's not just the one on this message board - a quick google of virtually any conversation on Table Tennis will net you the same result. It's NOT because Table Tennis is "so uberly complicated" either. I play regular Tennis as well which itself is a highly technical sport and whose equipment has just as much, if not MORE technology in them than Table Tennis - yet answers on Tennis equipment are mind-numbingly straight-forward and unanimous when questions arise. "Oh you have this playing style? You're a beginner? This is your answer. And as a backup, here's a second answer. That's all." and then 20 other people posting afterwards with incidentally the same exact answer, somebody possibly mentioning a MAXIMUM of a third answer.

Though I understand my straightforward and very honest way of speaking and attacking issues in front of me may seem overly aggressive and perhaps may (unintentionally), for whatever reason, offend some people whose fortitude cannot take such strong "words," etc., I'm just somebody who calls it like I see it and I don't set out to hurt or actually offend anyone. If I see an issue, especially a humongous one as the insane disparity and inconsistency that exists amongst the Table Tennis community, I will talk about it - not to cause "butt hurt" but to instead shed light on and hopefully start a conversation on it. One that will, hopefully, get rid of and resolve the problem. If not anywhere else, at least here, on this message board.

This "One Of A Kind" message board and community

Thank you Cobalt, carbonman, and pgpg for being the only people who didn't try to "attack" me for whatever damned reason. And carbonman, another thanks for bringing up the Samsonov example you gave regarding Carbon and its implied influence on even his control. And pgpg, thanks for just having a straight-up, open-minded reply period.

Nonetheless, I am now re-considering actually sticking with the STIGA Pro Carbon (perhaps most specifically in response to the example that carbonman gave - whose username I just noticed fittingly has the word 'carbon' in it, I wonder why?).
What the hell I will be going with for a CUSTOM set-up however, I have no freakin' clue. As the rest of this now enormous post should have made clear, somehow I'm supposed to find the correct custom set-up for me by going to the local Wishing Well and tossing in a weeks worth of pay, in coins, pennies even, in hopes that perhaps through divine intervention the answer is somehow made clear.
It's like I'm trying to read the answer's text on the other side through a black piece of paper.

I'm looking for big Speed (Power), and a lot of Spin. As far as control, so long as the set-up doesn't send the ball flying to the next county when the ball is so much as in the same room as it, I'm good with it.

Thank you all again for any further comments and contributions to the discussion. With me heeding the advice of the community and, at least as of now, revoking the pre-made Pro Carbon and going back to the drawing board, the discussion I suppose is active again. Hopefully a custom setup will actually prevail against all others.
Hopefully the community can find unity and consistency in at least one equipment thread, lol. As stated above, 54 different Blades and 54 different Rubber suggestions is the complete opposite of this. Presumably the actual correct answer is hidden amongst that colossal number of possible permutations.
I have doubt many (if even a single soul) read this monstrosity of a post, which I suppose in a way makes me sad given the effort that I give, but I appreciate any and all comments that have been made thus far, and that may be posted hereafter!


Best Regards,
X-Spin

_________________
"My center gives way, my right is pushed back, situation excellent, I am attacking."

- Ferdinand Foch (Supreme Commander of Allied Forces, World War I)

Hi X-Spin,

Unfortunately there is a myriad of bats & rubbers out there. Like your calculations show, not everyone is able to be totally familiar with every combination of bat and rubber that is out there. Your comparison with tennis equipment shows how much more complex TT equipment is. Also nearly every player plays their shots differently, so what suits one player down to the ground may not necessarily suit a similar player.

Bats are largely classified on a scale from DEF- (defensive in the extreme, the ball comes off them very slow) to OFF+ (offensive in the extreme, the ball comes off them very fast), with ALL (all round in the middle). So it goes:
DEF-, DEF, DEF+, ALL-, ALL, ALL+, OFF-, OFF, OFF+ in terms of speed the ball comes off the bat, with some overlap between the adjacent classifications.

Rubbers are then classified into:
pimples out - short pimples, medium pimples, long pimples
pimples in ie inverted - spinny inverted, antispin

Rubbers are also rated on 3 things: speed, spin & control, but I pay no attention to control as it seems to me to be related to the other 2 ratings. Unfortunately there is no universal scale for these things, only sometimes within a single manufacturer's product line, and even then the figures are often used to market the latest product line.

You appear to be looking for something in the OFF-, OFF, OFF+ area for the bat, and something in the pimples in inverted spinny rubber with a reasonably high rating for speed and spin.

Try to have a hit with as many bat / rubber combinations as you can from fellow club members, friends etc. Particularly try for the bats that are used by players with a similar style to the one that you have and / or that have the characteristics identified in the previous paragraph.

There is a characteristic that has been identified among many TT players - the Equipment Junkie. They believe that instead of getting coaching to identify their technical shortcomings that the next new blade or the latest wonder rubber will make them world champions. Unfortunately the placebo effect rewards them with a short honeymoon period until their EJ again takes over.

As long as you have equipment that doesn't work against you (DEF- blade with antispin say when you are an attacker) then you should be OK.

_________________
Retriever (sometimes golden, but often leaden)
Moderator, Inverted Retriever Technique sub-forum - http://ooakforum.com/viewforum.php?f=74

X-Spin,

My apologies.

NL.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Yes, no doubt. It is almost always like that on these forums! I've never seen it quantified before, but that is probably about par for the course on threads like this. On the surface it is appalling.

But, look a little deeper and it is not quite as bad as all that, because from early on in the thread, the one thing I noticed is that many of the blades and rubbers people were suggesting have quite similar properties and you would probably be ok with any of them---and in any case for many reasons better of than with a premade. Well, at least for the first few pages, where I remember some of the suggestions.

A human activity as complex as TT can never be as simple as closing a circuit, as much as we might wish otherwise. Too many shots have to be hit, from different trajectories and spins coming at you, and players come into it with a wide range it of different skill sets and physical aptitudes. People can be really good at some things, not so good at others. It is more like medicine than physics. Everyone wishes we could have the same kind of certainty in medicine as we typically have in predicting orbits of space craft from Newtonian physics, or the behavior of electronic circuits, but we just don't.

Here is an analogy. From everyday medicine, one could ask what drug should a patient take to relieve the pain from minor arthritis? Currently, the suggestion would be to take a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug, but there are many of those (especially when you consider the dozens of commercial formulations each drug comes in), so it seems like there are too many possible choices. So which one? But, all of those drugs are members of the same class, work pretty much the same way and have many of the same up- and down-sides and will probably do the job. With a little experience you might find one that is better than the other, maybe one works a little better for you, or is less likely to upset your stomach, or acts faster or lasts longer. But at the end of the day, nearly all would be more effective, relatively safe, and far more appropriate than morphine, prednisone, ketamine, clonidine, or herbal tea (for minor arthritis pain----the answer would be different if you had needed something for immediately after major surgery). And two different people may react a bit differently and favor one over the other for good reasons, but you really can't predict in advance.

People were recommending a lot of ALL+ to OFF- blades with high quality construction, good weight balance, comfortable handles, and with properties that allow them to be used effectively even if you improve rapidly. Prices can vary a lot along with quality control from various brands. There are many different blades that fall into that category, many of them are very good. Rubbers recommended were kind of the same range too (and there are even more of those to choose from!!!!!!). So most of the recommendations I saw from people seemed pretty reasonable.

When I first started playing long ago, this kind of thing was easier, since there were only a handful of choices, and only a subset of those could even be purchased in the US. For rubber, it was kind of like there was Mark V or Sriver when I first started. Now I don't even attempt to keep up with it all. I have something I'm really happy with and the only way I test something new is on a clubmate's setup if they have something new.

_________________
Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

You may have been given numerous suggestions but I think just about everyone advised not to go with a pre-made. Most of the suggestions were actually very similar and they would all work for you. In the link I gave you I said that most of the suggestions there would be fine - just pick one and go with it. Further down the track when you improve and gain more experience you will be in a position to make an informed decision yourself.

You said that you are after big speed and a lot of spin. Understand that, with a blade, the more speed you have the less spin you will get. (Most/many manufacturers bs that their blades offer enormous speed, spin and control). The overwhelming percentage of your power comes from you not your equipment. You should be able to hit plenty powerfully enough with any of the blades suggested.

The thread I linked you to was 3 pages long not 20.

The link I gave earlier on had the 20 pages.
Most important post was possibly the first one that said avoid composite blades - that is a blade containing carbon or something similar.
By delving into detail and applying all sort of figures it just adds blurs the choice and the key element of what not to buy gets lost.
I stand by my last post that if you don't believe in the advice given on here you'd be better off asking someone reputable in person. If I'm looking for an opinion / advice I generally go to the best. First blade I bought when I when back to TT was got from a local supplier when I had a knock for about 5 minutes with him so he could assess what level I was at. He was also a coach but learned later on that his experience was limited to donic / stiga & at the higher level relied on feedback from his sponsored players. Paid him the €78 and walked away with a stiga all round classic and 2.0 stiga mendo energy rubbers on both sides. In hindsight it was probably a little expensive but was happy to pay it since a visit to the doctor and a prescription would generally cost a lot more.

Corrected. Though it was admittedly a bit funny seeing the immediate distancing from the cumulative 23 pages of posts that were so casually "suggested as answers" - quite literally the exact opposite of concise or clear, lol.
As a responsible poster and inquirer, I actually read every single thing posted. It's very easy to just post a link and say "have at it!" - but there's still a human on this side of the keyboard.. Would have been nice to know beforehand "the first few pages" would have done it... or some other similar thing.


Also, I didn't actually include this in my post (it seemed long enough as it was) but I did note while I was reading it the "DO's and DONT's", as you alluded to. However, the nature of the Table Tennis community quickly came out and contradicted itself yet again

These were stated as overarching "DO's and DONT's":

- DO NOT get a Carbon blade
- DO get a 5-ply blade
- DO get a blade with outer plies made of Limba

However if you actually look at the humongous list of Blades and Rubbers that are supposedly "ALL the correct answer" you would quickly notice that there are multiple Carbon blades (a supposed DON'T), several 7-ply blades (another supposed DON'T), and a whole slew of blades where the outer plies are NOT made of Limba (another supposed DON'T). So listening to these overarching statements seemed completely nullified by the 'community of experts' itself contradicting each other, yet again. I respect everyone's opinion, and this community of course knows a lot about Table Tennis - so why in the world it would make sense to, for some reason, listen to one person's overarching statements when numerous others contradict it, is in itself disrespectful to each and every poster. If the people can't even agree amongst themselves, what the hell am I supposed to do? As the person inquiring, it's obviously impossible to know which is actually the correct answer. This kind of stuff is what makes this world of Table Tennis so hugely unclear and cloudy when it comes to equipment - arguably the most important decision one makes when taking on the sport (ex: no sense in training for a year as an offensive player only to find out you've been using a setup completely suited for defensive play - what have you sacrificed from technique in that year to compensate for what shouldn't have needed compensated for? The effects can be huge!)


Well I'm of course still reading everybody's posts and suggestions, and will continue to do so. I just wanted to add this quick little update.
I think I feel as though I'm going to end up doing what I had a feeling I'd need to do before - do an enormous meta-analysis of an ungodly amount of different blades and rubbers.

I think at this point I'm really hoping for some consolidation on the recommendations. For example, it won't make sense for me to look at a rubber that really isn't all that fast (unless it's compensated for by the blade, and the rubber in-turn offers an advantage - for example, Spin - that the Blade isn't sufficiently capable of providing). I already apparently have a strength in speed, I might as well "perfect it off" with a blade/rubber that just makes it even crazier, lol. Overkill?
And I'd like to be able to get heavy spin as well, if possible. Control - as previously mentioned, I'm fine with just so long as the ball doesn't go flying off the dang racket over the edge of the other side of the table whenever it so much as hears the word 'ball'.
This was something that was happening with the STIGA Pro Carbon (I adjusted to it to an extent in the time I did get to play with it, but my buddy literally didn't land a single forehand on the table the entire time until the last few minutes with it when he pointed it out and I in-turn intentionally started hitting exclusively to his forehand so he could practice.. I let him know I was going to do this in response, to help him).

Thanks for any continued suggestions, feedback, and comments! Feel free to help consolidate (as mentioned in the short paragraph above), heh.

Best Regards,
X-Spin

_________________
"My center gives way, my right is pushed back, situation excellent, I am attacking."

- Ferdinand Foch (Supreme Commander of Allied Forces, World War I)