OOAK Table Tennis Forum

guys this is my theroy on secret of tensor rubber manufactured by ESN Elastomers GMBH.

TENSOR IS ABOUT THE TOPSHEET AND NOT ABOUT THE SPONGE.

I will tell you why i think so... but before that let me tell yuo what i mean.

to create stretching action in the topheet... we know, by using glue we expand the sponge. the other possible way is to USE A TOPSHEET MATERIAL THAT SHRINKS SIGNIFICANTLY WHEN IT SETTLES / ANNEALS. the relative shrinkage will create tension in the topsheet, mimicing the glue effect although in dry condition.

Now curse me later.. but here rests my case:



1. Tensor sponges doesn't behave different in physical charecterisitics but topsheets do.
- they oxidize over time, changes color sometimes
- they are brittle and edge chips. i don't agree with the phenomena that edg chips under tension. do you see a hurricane or a bryce chip like a tensor when you consstantly induce tension with speed glue?
i understand some of the newer tensors are overcoming this problem. but if tensor was to do with sponge... the topsheet problem would have never been overcome.

2. you can get any bloody sponge hardness in tensor, but never that much play with intrinsic topsheet quality like tackiness. if sponge was the magic, they would just fix a tacky rubber on sponge. unfortunately the magic being the topsheets, they don't have so much play with formulation.

3. may sound funny.. but a company named elastomer would have better luck wth elastomers (rubbers) than sponge

4. If it was sponge, they would eventually sell the sponges seperately to other companies.. like they sell the whole combination to different companies under different brand names ... commercially its called private labelling. THink of a company like DHS ... what volume business they could potentially give to ESN putting such a sponge below h2 or h3.

5. i think the reason they call bios and stuff and shows trees etc.. could be that they are using some natural resins in making the topsheet. my little knowledge tells me resins would be unlikely in sponge formulation.
[but needs to be verified]

6. If they were to do otherwise, they were to actually create a sponge which expands while colling down, which though not impossible, a far more unlikely ... would sure have problem with uniformity becauese there has to be a phase transformation (go check material sc books . Chance of non-uniformity will be eminent

so the process would be that the topsheet rubber mix is molded and pasted on the sponge in green stage and then underwent some heat treatment or cooling cycle to attain desired shrinkage and hence tension.


Okay .. Shoot!! Agree? Disagree?



[alex... that could be the answer to why there migt never be a tacky tensor]

1. Sriver oxidises with time too. Most rubbers do, albeit slower.

3. The sponges are, by definition, "celluloid rubber". Read the ITTF regulations.

4. ESN sells sponges. Think friendship.

otherwise your theory is perfectly fine.

IMO it's to do with the topsheet AND the sponge.

_________________
Chasse Patate

I think this theory has much in favor of it, so much so that I suspect that debraj has gotten close to the truth.

It nicely accounts for the very unusual brittleness, the lack of a tacky topsheet, the very rapid change in color, and the availability of a wide range of sponge hardnesses. It also makes sense from the point of view of the kinds of things polymers can do. It could also explain why speed gluing some of them permanently ruins the effect. My only thought on the subject, is one might expect such a process to lead to something that would actually perform better than speed glue; but as has been pointed out repeatedly, they are far from that. (Although, the last two sheets of JO Gold I have used, which have never seen speed glue, are performing substantially better).

This raises a question in my mind: The only tensors I have used have been red (because my short pips last for a very long time, and they have, from random choice at the beginning, been black).

Does anyone know if the black Tensors are any more durable than the red ones? Or if they have different playing characteristics?

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Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

1. exactly... that's my point. addition of some ingredients made this topsheets more susceptible to surface oxidation than normal topsheets.

3. Terminology means nothing. i am talking of elastomers which are characterized by spaghetti bonds... against artificial foam sponges (which could be from cellulose origin) but under different classification of material

4. nope. Show me 1 credible reference where friendship or anybody claims so. none. nada. rather friendship mentions that the highpoint rubber (meaning combo) is completely manufactured and packaged in german factory


i don't think its to do with sponges and rubbers...or else if you take ofthe sponge of a tensor and put a normal topsheet on it... it would play at least differently from a normal combo....would someone do this for me?

baal,

why it may never reach the same feel is 'coz there are supposedly two phenomena working with speedglued rubber. one is stretching other i some complex thing with temporary bursting of a vacuum bubble and [ i don't understand]. i don't think the second can be simulated dry.

if i find that research article on speed glue phenomena i will post the link here.

Look up Hydraulic pumps and cavitation. Same thing.

_________________
Shakehand, left handed.
Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max

The brittleness is different from one tensor to another. Torpedo or Desto F2 are more, but in the case of Nimbus is inexistent.

_________________
Xiom Strato , St
FH: DHS H3 prov, max
BH: Butterfly Tenergy 05FX, max

Vali

I am getting tired of the lack of duarbility of my JO Gold, would like an alternative. I have some Tenergy on order, but if it doesn't work, do you think that Nimbus might have some of the same feel?

By the way, I didn't like Platin or Platin Soft at all.

_________________
Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

Wow excellent post, I think you're really onto something here debraj!
.
I could certainly explain why there are no tacky tensors either...

I wonder if any chinese manufacturer are reading this thread, and are back into their labs experimenting

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1. Actually, mark v oxidises at about the same rate as some tensors, and possibly faster than the newer ones.

3. The sponges aren't made of foam. There are a couple of rubbers out there with foam sponges. Have a look at them and you'll see the difference. ESN sponges feel different to japanese and chinese sponges too.

4. Go look in the shop. 729 on german sponge. whatever. It's ESN sponge.

_________________
Chasse Patate

1. i used mark v for a long time, and have zero experience with tensor durability, since i never bought a tensor myself. but boss, if tensors oxidize as M 5, i wouldn't consider them too bad.

3. i think all sponges are foam (with air bubbles in them lare or small) of differnt matgerial like latex foam will be diff from cellulose foam. i happen to have a material sc degree that's 12 years old... and hardly put into practice.. so things may have changd inbetween and i don't want to claim that i am an expert on modern materials.

4. at least 729 highpoint... even oneofakindtrading.com describes them as packaged totally out of germany.

again I am not certain or claim any insider knowledge about why tensors are tensors... but certain logical derivations looked very compelling. i will be as happy to be proved right as to be proved wrong, because both way i increase my knowledge.

It's not really a secret. Tensor = very highly streched 'tensioned' rubber. But yes the sponge is different to Chinese/Japanese as well. If it wasn't, why would some Chinese rubbers attach German sponge as a marketing ploy?

By the way, I don't believe Mark V oxidizes as quickly as Tensors do. And not *all* Tensors oxidize badly. It seems some batches oxidize faster than others (you can trace these batches by the serial numbers on the back).

thx for your comment..

but chinese japnese companies who use german sponge.. and german tensor made by esn elastomers are differetn stories all together. isn't it?

they have good sponges... my point is it is those sponges don't make the set-up tensor... they can make tensor even if you provide them with some of chinese or jap sponges... but not if you provide them with chinese jap topsheets.