OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I think it's entirely possible that a high level, experienced player, with great allround technique, playing at a high level, against experienced opponents might find Marder lacks a little penetration. That said, one of the strongest players in our area manages to attack very effectively with Tackiness Chop and Palio HK1997, both of which are slower than Marder.

My view is that at your stage, any rubber will do, and that Marder is a particularly nice all-round control rubber that isn't too expensive.




Trust me. The thing that holds back your offensive capabilities will me technique based, such as:

- Poor footwork and balance
- Bad timing
- Insufficient whip / hand speed
- Hitting across the ball
- Poor weight transfer

Once you've developed solid technique, with good footwork, balance, weight transfer, hitting with good timing and good technique, and generating plenty of spin, together with consistent placement, then maybe you can start to worry about whether you need a little extra boost with your rubber. Right now, I think you'll be fine with any allround rubber. You'll also be fine with the 401 - it's just your journey will be different.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

True that.

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There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

Sounds good, its up for me to choose now then, what blade would go well with the Victas 401? A Def blade like VKM/VKM Offense or ALL blade? Going to decide later which rubber to buy this week . Also whats your view point on Marder vs Mark V, are they kind of the same? I've played with a few Mark V here and there.

Thanks for the help, I'll be choosing this week, but for the Victas 401 which blade would be ideal? Joo, VKM/VKM Offense or an ALL blade? Also how would you compare the Marder II and Mark V to each other in terms of how I want to play, both being roughly All round rubbers and all. I've played with Mark V here and there and think it isn't too bad but the only payoff is speed but in turn I have great control.

Two points - mostly to summarize feedback from Lorre and LordCope:

* You played only for ~6 months and you don't have a rating - you are a beginner. Full stop, end of discussion. Blades and rubbers do not matter much at this point (and even at higher level they are not as important as you might think).
* You are OVERTHINKING everything right now. Yes, forums are a great source of TT-related info, but they can leave you with impression that differences among blades and rubbers are very large, that you should pay close attention to blade/rubber matching, throw angles, dwell time, blade composition etc. You should not.

Grab a copy of setup of your favorite player ( or forum poster) and stick with it for a few months. Tell us how it goes.

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

1. 100% agree with everything said above.
2. I wouldn't recommend VKMO to a beginner even though that's what Yuto Muramatsu, Ma Te and other pros play with. The blade is pretty fast and stiff. I would start out with a slow blade , i.e. VKM, then add an inverted rubber in 1.8 or 2.0 (any rubber really, it won't make much difference) and a thin sponged LP and you are all set.

Yea thanks, I am overthinking it and will get a set of VKM and Victas 401, I'll play with it a few months and see how it goes this will help me see what way to go.

1. 100% agree with everything said above.
2. I wouldn't recommend VKMO to a beginner even though that's what Yuto Muramatsu, Ma Te and other pros play with. The blade is pretty fast and stiff. I would start out with a slow blade , i.e. VKM, then add an inverted rubber in 1.8 or 2.0 (any rubber really, it won't make much difference) and a thin sponged LP and you are all set.[/quote]

Good call, I'll get the VKM and the Victas 401 and upgrade from there after a few months of playing. I haven't played with LP and at my level I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter as of yet, I kind of like having the same rubber on both sides bur that's probably my inexperience talking.

You are going on the path of playing modern defense with double inverted? That's a bit unorthodox - most modern defenders will have LP or SP on their BH, but should be possible, I think. Have fun, that's kind of important .

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

I didnt know it was unorthodox, my back hand has most of my attacking power and control, unless I go for an all round set up like Mark V or whatever all round rubber and an ALL blade. What would you suggest? Go double inverted, look for LP SP on my backhand or go for an all round playstyle.

Have a look through the videos section of the forum and look at some videos of high-level modern defenders. This will give you an idea of what the style is about. If you think you'd like to try to play this way, then it's not a bad idea to take your favourite player and emulate their setup, and model yourself on him/her.

I did mention to you that most defenders (modern or otherwise) use LP on their backhand, but unless you are 100% sure that you want to play this style of game, you're probably better off just learning to play, with an allround setup.

If you are indeed sure you want to play a modern defence type of game, I would suggest getting started right away, but understanding that it's a much tougher road. It's more difficult to learn, more difficult to execute, and, in general, you will lose many more games in the process. However, the end point is worth the wait - when you can return fierce attacks, cause errors, and come in with a powerful attack of your own as soon as the chance is there, it's a great feeling, and for many of us here, how we feel the game is best played.

However - learning to play with LP is difficult. Best of all, find a coach who specialises in LP. If you can't manage that, at least find a player who uses them well, and learn from them. Failing that, get a video camera, and record yourself, and send videos to the forum, and various LP players will be very happy to help you. This forum is, arguably, the best resource around for learning what we fondly call "the dark side"

But... I cannot say this enough... your progress will be frustratingly slow. The number of people who can/will help you with an allround game is vastly vastly greater, and you'll get to a decent level much more quickly if you go down that route.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

I'll do this, I'll keep playing my all round play style, I will be getting Donic Baracuda or Mark V on an ALL blade since they can both do what I want. I don't think I'm ready to walk down that path and want to use my back hand offensively more than defensive. Both these rubbers can chop anyway so I will practice with them in 1.8 mm. I will practice with this for months and see if once I get better, and develop more of a play style, what I want to go for from there. Thank you, LordCope, pgpg, and everyone else on the thread that has helped me out, I know what I want to do.

Marvellous - that sounds like a thoroughly sensible course of action. Keep us updated!

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

I think it's instructive to note that the world class classic defenders use pretty much the same inverted rubbers that their attacking peers use. If Joo uses Tenergy, I don't see why lower level modern defenders shouldn't use what attackers at their skill level use as well.

Iskandar

Yea, I do wish I could try a tenergy but my budget won't be there even on the week of my birthday, instead I bought ALL blade with 2 Mark V and Tibhar EL-P to see what a Tenergy "alternative" plays like for my forehand Most of my power and performance comes from my back hand and I don't think I'm in a position to attack with my forehand. I don't think I would be well suited for pips out on my backhand just yet, instead I will get some experience and form to get it up to par and see where I go from that. I do have high respect for modern defenders though, I envy how they can sure put on a show.