OOAK Table Tennis Forum :: Help with Modern Defense

And What about when players just repeatedly push to my pips? I can keep returning low balls with my long pips but it doesnt really help me get a point. Is my strategy to wait until they mess up maybe? It seems risky because they can keep pushing until they find a good time to smash.

I am thinking I would like to twiddle and push back to create a harder shot to return its just my inverted rubber is really hard to control, I used to have DHS Hurricane 3 rubber on a different paddle and pushes were easy for me, but this one is very sensitive I have now. But, I love smashing with the rubber I have now because it gets me points and it is so fast.

benc6190 wrote:

Two options.

One. Yes. Just keep pushing. As a defender no one should be able to out push you. It is just as if not more important then any other shot in your arsenal. I know it's boring. I know it has no glory. But it is 100% crucial for you to be good at this. You should welcome the push because it is one more shot you can 100% put on the table.

Two. You need to change something. And I don't mean turn into an impatient attack....maybe change the spot of your push. Maybe change to your inverted rubber. Maybe step around and control loop that you know they can block but you have time to recover from......the problem is is that if these shots aren't 80% consistent then stick to pushing.

Just remember as a defender your foundation is being able to outlast. Not to win.

You should be able to put every ball back on the table no matter how boring....this is the next step to improving.

No, you cannot sandwich 2 independent 0.5mm sheets of sponge to make one 1mm sponge. You would need to remove the 0.5 and add a 1.0mm.

One. Yes. Just keep pushing. As a defender no one should be able to out push you.

leatherback wrote:

One. Yes. Just keep pushing. As a defender no one should be able to out push you.

Except a better defender..

Iskandar

No, you cannot sandwich 2 independent 0.5mm sheets of sponge to make one 1mm sponge. You would need to remove the 0.5 and add a 1.0mm.

Author:	benc6190 [ 16 Nov 2016, 04:15 ]
Post subject:	Help with Modern Defense
Hi Everyone, Some months ago I got a Joo Se Hyuk blade and tsp curl p1r in .5. I like chopping although one of the weaknesses is that its impossible to smash with tsp curl p1r even if the ball is really high, so my opponents often just lob to my back hand. Some people question me why its impossible but I have other people try to do it with my paddle and they can not also, maybe its because the thin rubber? I can really only smash if the ball is REALLY close to the net, other wise it just goes straight down... I can just chop the lob and try to get a low shot so my opponent cant smash, its just a little difficult and I need to practice that. I am working on switching the blade in my hand to use my other rubber, which is currently stiga calibra lt. I can twiddle and hit a backhand with the inverted rubber but its just not a very good shot for me right now. I am using this because my friend gave it to me since i dont have another rubber. It is incredibly fast and I have difficulty controlling it. Smashing is awesome because I can finish points easily but it is very spin sensitive and the ball often flies out even if I just touch the ball. I can keep the ball in play since I have practiced a lot and continue to practice it is just difficult to get good control. Should I continue and just try to get better with what I have? I am thinking I maybe need to switch my inverted rubber for something else, and if So I am looking for something cheaper like at least under 30 dollars. Thank you for any suggestions or comments. Also: I am unrated But I estimate I am around 1300 to 1500 rating or so.

Author:	pgpg [ 16 Nov 2016, 04:52 ]
Post subject:	Re: Help with Modern Defense
If they are truly lobbing (which means you have plenty of time to see where ball is going), perhaps stepping around and using your FH is an option here.

Author:	v100ev [ 16 Nov 2016, 05:10 ]
Post subject:	Re: Help with Modern Defense
The best way is to step around and to play with your FH, but if you somehow don't have enough time I would recommend to try to make a drop shot using the pips. It's not easy and most of the time the ball you leave will be not very short but if it's low it won't be an easy ball for your opponent(a rather nasty no-spin ball (and not to forget that the opponent is far from the table so I don't think it will be easy for him to play aggressive in this situation)).

Author:	benc6190 [ 16 Nov 2016, 06:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: Help with Modern Defense
Returning a lob with a drop shot sounds like a good idea, but if the lob is far back on the table that seems like it would be really hard to do, but hopefully I will usually have time to get to my forehand side. But often I do not because it does not have to be a really high lob to throw me off, it could just be a ball with not much spin. Zero spin shots from my opponents are hard to return with my long pips because I believe spin is what helps me return the ball. Without spin I need to be careful how I hit the ball so it does not fly out of bounds, and on top of that my shots are very vulnerable to being smashed, since me hitting a dead ball with pips wont generate any spin either, so it has to be a well placed shot. And What about when players just repeatedly push to my pips? I can keep returning low balls with my long pips but it doesnt really help me get a point. Is my strategy to wait until they mess up maybe? It seems risky because they can keep pushing until they find a good time to smash. I am thinking I would like to twiddle and push back to create a harder shot to return its just my inverted rubber is really hard to control, I used to have DHS Hurricane 3 rubber on a different paddle and pushes were easy for me, but this one is very sensitive I have now. But, I love smashing with the rubber I have now because it gets me points and it is so fast. I dont have any coach or anything I just play recreationally against pretty good players some very good. So I am trying to learn myself to get better.

Author:	iskandar taib [ 16 Nov 2016, 14:42 ]
Post subject:	Re: Help with Modern Defense
benc6190 wrote: And What about when players just repeatedly push to my pips? I can keep returning low balls with my long pips but it doesnt really help me get a point. Is my strategy to wait until they mess up maybe? It seems risky because they can keep pushing until they find a good time to smash. I am thinking I would like to twiddle and push back to create a harder shot to return its just my inverted rubber is really hard to control, I used to have DHS Hurricane 3 rubber on a different paddle and pushes were easy for me, but this one is very sensitive I have now. But, I love smashing with the rubber I have now because it gets me points and it is so fast. Reminds me of what I was told once. Push more aggressively. A push needn't just be a push - you can try varying the length of the shot, the direction, and the speed. Push one fast and deep to their backhand, and the next one close to the net on the forehand. You can also vary the spin you put on the push - on some of them, lift the ball, on some, push through. You can't vary the spin as much as you can if you used inverted, but I imagine it can still be done. Be ready to kill the loose ball when it comes. Twiddling, it seems to me, would be a very good thing to learn. Practice playing with the long pips on the forehand side and develop "mirror image" strokes - inverted topspin drives and loops with your backhand, for instance, and pushes, flips and chops with the long pips on the forehand. Ideally you'd be able to do the same strokes with the same degree of proficiency with the bat in either orientation, but this does seem to be beyond human ability (if it were not, all the world's top choppers would be doing it). Iskandar

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Author:	leatherback [ 17 Nov 2016, 02:34 ]
Post subject:	Re: Help with Modern Defense
benc6190 wrote: And What about when players just repeatedly push to my pips? I can keep returning low balls with my long pips but it doesnt really help me get a point. Is my strategy to wait until they mess up maybe? It seems risky because they can keep pushing until they find a good time to smash. Two options. One. Yes. Just keep pushing. As a defender no one should be able to out push you. It is just as if not more important then any other shot in your arsenal. I know it's boring. I know it has no glory. But it is 100% crucial for you to be good at this. You should welcome the push because it is one more shot you can 100% put on the table. Two. You need to change something. And I don't mean turn into an impatient attack....maybe change the spot of your push. Maybe change to your inverted rubber. Maybe step around and control loop that you know they can block but you have time to recover from......the problem is is that if these shots aren't 80% consistent then stick to pushing. Just remember as a defender your foundation is being able to outlast. Not to win. You should be able to put every ball back on the table no matter how boring....this is the next step to improving.

Author:	LordCope [ 17 Nov 2016, 03:45 ]
Post subject:	Help with Modern Defense
+1 to Leatherback's advice. I touched on this in my blog recently. Psychologically and technically you need to be impenetrable. This takes a lot of time and a lot of patience, but it is foundational. With regards to pushing, you need to make it difficult for your opponent. I often see people just pushing back as if it were some kind of friendly drill. Unless you're playing another defender, you have much more ammunition. You can vary speed and spin and placement with a combination setup. Even if you never twiddle, you have many options to mix up things. Here are just a few: - push early just off the bounce - delicately push very short and wide - push deep and long - push to the crossover You can do these with either side. That's 8 combinations already. Additionally you can play what I call a dead push. This uses a firm/locked wrist and is almost a punch. It's unexpected, skids, and will often win a point. You can also play a more forward-going shot with your lp. Against a push this really is a very easy shot. You sort of pick the ball up and roll it over. Let the pips do the work for you. You'll often get an opponent to push into the net with this shot. You can also flick with your lp, with either FH or BH. Again, unexpected and effective. In addition to all this you can twiddle or step around and play an offensive or semi offensive shot. This will very often surprise your opponent. But above all, be safe. You can drill all these shots with a partner, or play a game where you are not allowed to run a point with a winner - only by inducing a mistake. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Author:	Japsican [ 17 Nov 2016, 03:47 ]
Post subject:	Re: Help with Modern Defense
leatherback wrote: benc6190 wrote: And What about when players just repeatedly push to my pips? I can keep returning low balls with my long pips but it doesnt really help me get a point. Is my strategy to wait until they mess up maybe? It seems risky because they can keep pushing until they find a good time to smash. Two options. One. Yes. Just keep pushing. As a defender no one should be able to out push you. It is just as if not more important then any other shot in your arsenal. I know it's boring. I know it has no glory. But it is 100% crucial for you to be good at this. You should welcome the push because it is one more shot you can 100% put on the table. Two. You need to change something. And I don't mean turn into an impatient attack....maybe change the spot of your push. Maybe change to your inverted rubber. Maybe step around and control loop that you know they can block but you have time to recover from......the problem is is that if these shots aren't 80% consistent then stick to pushing. Just remember as a defender your foundation is being able to outlast. Not to win. You should be able to put every ball back on the table no matter how boring....this is the next step to improving. This is awesome advice, and one that Leatherback has given before...to me. I live by this mantra at my level, and twiddling and pushing with inverted is what I typically do to add a new element to pushing. But...I just noticed...Leatherback went back to LPs (Cloud and Fog)?! Huge news (Ps, I've been offline for 2 weeks with travel and a go-live at work, so perhaps I missed something).

Author:	benc6190 [ 17 Nov 2016, 04:12 ]
Post subject:	Re: Help with Modern Defense
Thanks for the advice everyone I will be practicing these techniques. I do usually end up pushing with my long pips too much and I should twiddle to use the inverted side more often. Also I am wondering: I have .5mm long pips and am wondering what the 1mm is like, is it legal to add .5mm sponge to the rubber? Because I dont want to buy a new rubber. Also I was thinking maybe it will play weirdly if I glue sponge onto sponge

Author:	Japsican [ 17 Nov 2016, 05:09 ]
Post subject:	Re: Help with Modern Defense
No, you cannot sandwich 2 independent 0.5mm sheets of sponge to make one 1mm sponge. You would need to remove the 0.5 and add a 1.0mm.

Author:	Danthespearton HQ [ 17 Nov 2016, 06:28 ]
Post subject:	Re: Help with Modern Defense
Japsican wrote: No, you cannot sandwich 2 independent 0.5mm sheets of sponge to make one 1mm sponge. You would need to remove the 0.5 and add a 1.0mm. Do you mean that it's illegal to do that, or the rubber wouldn't play effectively?

Author:	Retriever [ 17 Nov 2016, 06:39 ]
Post subject:	Re: Help with Modern Defense
Illegal.

Author:	iskandar taib [ 17 Nov 2016, 16:25 ]
Post subject:	Re: Help with Modern Defense
leatherback wrote: One. Yes. Just keep pushing. As a defender no one should be able to out push you. Except a better defender.. Iskandar

Author:	leatherback [ 17 Nov 2016, 22:21 ]
Post subject:	Re: Help with Modern Defense
iskandar taib wrote: leatherback wrote: One. Yes. Just keep pushing. As a defender no one should be able to out push you. Except a better defender.. Iskandar Yes. Lol. Prepare for the expedite rule. Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

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Author:	Danthespearton HQ [ 17 Nov 2016, 22:52 ]
Post subject:	Re: Help with Modern Defense
Japsican wrote: No, you cannot sandwich 2 independent 0.5mm sheets of sponge to make one 1mm sponge. You would need to remove the 0.5 and add a 1.0mm. Well, who would notice?