OOAK Table Tennis Forum

For reference to those who don't have a stiga clipper, this is what it looks like.

End of handle:


Text on blade surface:


Blade surface:

Would not be surprised if that Ma Long blade was made in the HRT factory.

_________________
Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

On a somewhat related note - how many pros use their own eponymous blades? Does Schlager use a Schlager? Boll use a Boll? Ma Long use a Ma Long?

Iskandar

Matsushita Koji, Joo Se Hyuk, and give up.

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

Long story short: I do use almost the same setup as a pro used to, but got there after a fairly involved process of trying a variety of stuff. I'm not claiming inside knowledge, as most of this stuff comes from watching videos and reading this forum. I do play the same sort of game, or more accurately, I try to.

Longer story: Ma Long does use a blade with his picture in the handle, as you can clearly see in numerous videos of him playing. The picture shown from the Playa Ping Pong shop looks like a Hurricane Long 3, which is clearly based on the Clipper originally, as is the 506. I could make up a fairly convincing story of how the CNT went from using Stiga all-wood blades, and were migrated to DHS "special" versions sometime after the company became the major sponsors of the Chinese game. I think quite a lot of the players have used the 506 or variants.

Ma Long now uses a Hurricane Long 5 (or at least the CNT version) which also has his picture on it, and so do other members of the CNT. (Fang Bo until last year used the same blade, also complete with Ma Long's picture, but now has his own version with his own picture which commercially costs a lot less, doesn't come with its own certificate of quality, and has a smaller handle, which I suspect is the only real difference). ProTT and others claim to have access to the players' actual equipment, and it may be true (which is why Playa Ping Pong are selling the earlier version and not the current one), but I'm not going to pay those prices, certainly not without some provenance which would make them an investment for the future. I suspect, but don't know, that the pros get to choose from a variety of samples, choosing the "best" ones as they like, but that they are not substantially different from the normal versions.

I now use a HL3, not just because Ma Long used it (but it would be disingenuous to refuse to acknowledge some influence, and it's not a bad recommendation, I suppose), but because I found that I really liked the PG7, which is the cheapest of the DHS Clipper-like models (much more than I liked the actual Clipper), and then found that the HL3 just feels right in my hand. It took a couple of weeks to get used to it, so there is something of a different feel over the PG7. It's probably more tightly specced than the PG7. I have no pretensions to being more than a moderate player, but I live very modestly otherwise, it's not so expensive as to be prohibitive, it makes me happy and that's my excuse . And I have pretty much settled on this blade for long term use. For now.

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Other setups:
SDC Custom Blade/Butterfly Dignics 80/Butterfly Glayzer
BTY Viscaria/Tibhar K3/Tibhar K3

Much more moderately priced one here:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 55935.html

Still $205, but a lot less than $2000! Yup, it's got his face on the butt end:



Quite rough sanding on the butt end - you can tell they used some sort of belt sander to finish it. Yinhe uses finer sandpaper..

Here's the V:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 12017.html

Just a little more expensive ($240). The butt end:



The difference seems to be that the III is a 7 ply wood (the inner core seems to be thicker than the Clipper's core) while the V is an "inner" aramid-carbon. I have no doubt that Ma Long chooses his blades, probably tries out several that weigh the same and chooses the ones he likes. Don't know if he gives away or sells the ones he doesn't like but I'll bet he gets to keep more than the ones he actually uses...

There's also this one, which is neither III not V, and is a aramid-carbon:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 05329.html



The obvious difference with the V is that the face plies are dyed grey, and it's an "outer" (rather than an "inner"). A little lighter, too. And it's actually even more expensive. They claim Ma Long uses it (or used it at some point).

Eacheng apparently doesn't sell the Fang Bo blade but Playa does:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DHS-Ori ... 05244.html

Yeah, a LOT cheaper (a little more than $70). No real nice butt scan, but yeah, you can see the photo on the end:



Looks like they chose a photo of him with his mouth open, just like Ma Long's.. "Hurricane BO" also sounds.. uh, I think they shouldn't have capitalized the "O". Ma Long's blades have a dragon (Long) on the handle, can't see anything similar on Fang Bo's. The blade is lighter than the Long V, other than that it seems the same construction-wise.

(I keep wondering why a LOT of the blades I've seen - across different companies - Yinhe, DHS, Sanwei, even Joola - come in shrink cellophane with company logos on one side. Makes you wonder if the same company OEMs all these blades - but then again I know Yinhe has it's own blade factory.)

There's something similar to the Long V here for $50:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 82696.html

and you can even choose your own handle pieces. Maybe even get them to stick YOUR picture on the end...

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 36497.html



Makes me wonder if they don't OEM the DHS blades...

Iskandar

Mine is much more finely sanded than that picture, more like the V picture. It was cheaper from TableTennis11 as well...

_________________
Other setups:
SDC Custom Blade/Butterfly Dignics 80/Butterfly Glayzer
BTY Viscaria/Tibhar K3/Tibhar K3

Ah..

http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/ ... ane-long-3

EUR171.50 plus shipping - that's only USD184. Wow, who'd have thought? Apparently the newest ones aren't printed on the blade. The grey blade was apparently the original Hurricane Long, there's also a Hurricane Long II.

I think the V picture still has the plastic on the blade.

Have you noticed there's no Hurricane Long IV?

Iskandar

No Long 4, like normal. I am surprised they didn't go straight to 8.

Oh and TT11 price I paid included the top bulk discount, so it was under E200 including H8 and MX-P. and a few other things that I got at the same time. Cheaper than China, and express delivery to the UK. And officially no import tax (until Brexit kicks in. Sigh.) Weirdly, the Fang Bo 2 was virtually the same price from all dealers, China, Estonia and UK, so that I got here.

On a side note, because of the smaller handle, the Fang Bo 2 is lighter, but feels head heavy. The original Long 3, and possibly the Long 5 as well, had a larger head, a couple of extra cms longer, so that may well have felt head heavy too, and it may be that that Fang Bo was trying to emulate. Tends to help with speed. He played well against Fan Zhedong in the SF in Doha, took him to 7 sets.

Now, Fan Zhedong's bat is a whole different can of worms.

_________________
Other setups:
SDC Custom Blade/Butterfly Dignics 80/Butterfly Glayzer
BTY Viscaria/Tibhar K3/Tibhar K3

No VAT? Or did TT11 add VAT to the price already? I suppose you'd have to pay VAT if you order from China.

Iskandar

If you pay VAT at point of order, there are no more taxes added within the EU. So I paid VAT, as far as I know, in Estonia (it's included in the quoted price).

Ordering from China is a little more complicated. There is a certain level at which you are supposed to pay VAT and import taxes. However, looking at the UK .gov site, there is both a maximum tax free amount and a minimum tax payable amount. In effect, they don't bother to collect the taxes if it would be too small an amount to bother with, even if it is theoretically payable. And if it comes by post, it may take a long time, but customs hardly ever looks at the item to assess real value. I normally keep orders from China at a lower level, one more reason to order the HL3 from TT11. In theory, I could be hit with 20% VAT and variable rate import duty on an expensive item from China.

One advantage of ordering from Aliexpress though: they quote and take payment in Sterling, so I know exactly what it will cost. TT11 quote in Euros or US Dollars, and there is always a question about exchange rates, and charges from the credit card company.

But we are now straying from the topic...

_________________
Other setups:
SDC Custom Blade/Butterfly Dignics 80/Butterfly Glayzer
BTY Viscaria/Tibhar K3/Tibhar K3

Talking of why you would NOT want to use a pro's setup, this video from EmRatThich makes a compelling argument, one that I think we are all aware of.

_________________
Other setups:
SDC Custom Blade/Butterfly Dignics 80/Butterfly Glayzer
BTY Viscaria/Tibhar K3/Tibhar K3

Another good one:



He's got quite a bit to say about "National" rubbers...

Iskandar

I think you have to be very careful saying the rubbers are not the same. You have to understand and differentiate the different aspects of the rubber AND sponge. You also have to be careful about picking and choosing video footage. I have tested various products and when testing I don't devise tests to prove my point. I test to identify trends and patterns of behaviour. In the video of ma long I'd have been very surprised to see a high arc from his shots irrespective of the rubber used. He is top spin driving the ball with pace over the table or just off the end and he's taking the ball at it's highest point which is higher than the net allowing him the security of being able to drive the ball flatish with pace and know it will land on the table. The flatness of the "throw" is more to do with the technique needed to execute that type of shot in that that situation than the rubber itself. Show me footage of him repeatably driving the ball flat from 10 feet or more behind the end of the table, point after point, game after game. It's not as simple as selecting video that suits your opinion and saying, see I'm right.

Secondly the bat used has a massive influence on the performance of a rubber. That for me is a big problem with referencing data bases that list rubber performance, they never list what blades the rubber was used on, nor do they give an indication of the technical ability of the reviewer nor their style of play or what they have used in the past to act as a reference point. It's one of the reasons OOAK forum members put a lot of work into designing the review template which people submitting reviews were asked to complete.

Thirdly, whilst I accept the premise top players get top quality equipment I suspect it would be more accurate to say it's more consistent in how it performs and lots of players who aren't sponsored don't have that luxury and buy their rubbers like you and me.

Fourthly, the ITTF authorise the top sheet, and that top sheet is given a number which is embossed, moulded, however you want to describe it, into the top sheet. If Ma Long uses a rubber with the same ittf authorisation number as that shown on the ones you and I can buy, it should be the same "top sheet" or DHS risk losing their authorisation from the ittf. Where there is massive room for difference is the sponge which the ittf don't include in their authorisation tests. I suspect a harder sponge goes someway to explaining the main differences in what we and the pro's use and why its usually photos of sponge used to differentiate between pro versions and main stream that you can buy.

This distinction between rubber topsheet and sponge and how they interact is not semantics, it's very important when trying to understand the performance characteristics of equipment.

Ultimately until a manufacturer volunteers to answer this - I've tried to get a response from Nittaku on this issue without success - all we have is opinion and the option to choose what we want to believe.

Hee hee hee.. remember this?

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=29628&hilit=H2+topsheet+battle%27#p313988

Hurricane 3 retail:


Hurricane 3 National:


Hurricane 2 (retail, I suppose..)


All sorts of possibilities here, of course. 1) Mistake during photography/editing. 2) The National sheet is fake. 3) The H3 National really does have the same topsheet as H2. Even if (3) is true, it doesn't mean that EVERY batch of H3 National has the same topsheet. And even so.. who's going to slice rubber and look at the pips with a loupe? Racket Control probably just reads what's printed on the topsheet. If Ma Long shows up with, say, H3 which has a different chemistry or pip structure or an extra dose of whatever they apply to the surface to make the topsheet tacky, no one is going to know. (Note that this isn't the purported "Personal Rubber" that was being discussed on the video, it's the white-packaged stuff with the hologram that Eacheng sells.)

I've no idea if the "Personal" sheets you find on prott.vip and Playa Ping Pong on AliExpress are the real thing, but they CAN'T be commercial sheets done up with booster, because commercial sheets have the corners cut off. They COULD be sheets "liberated" at the factory, or they COULD be entirely fake sheets OEMed elsewhere. Whatever they are, they've got all four corners still attached (and they have blue sponge, whatever that means). The stuff in the plain white wrappers?? And the "Provincial" sheets with the two corners removed?? That Eacheng sells?? I'll bet those are 100% genuine DHS official product, they've got the rub-off holograms to prove it. Whether or not they're worth whatever they want for it is another matter.

I must admit, EmRatThich has a way of getting directly to the point - "If Ma Long gives you his racket do you think you'd play better?" I'm not saying he's right about Ma Long's rubber, of course, I am saying it's possible that topsheets might not be what they say they are.

Iskandar