OOAK Table Tennis Forum

In an attempt to revive a Carbonado 145 I decided to try a few non fast rubbers. The goal was to chose a rubber that has medium to high spin potential without too much power that the 145 is known for. I also wanted something to counter the high throw angle that the blade possess. Someone suggested a cheap Banda China TS...which was grippy but dead to me, the sponge felt too hard. So I went in the soft sponge direction which I am getting good results with. I got my hand on Carbo sound 1.8mm and a Neos 1.8mm that were on clearance, and a Mantra S 1.7mm from a friend. The neos I have to try some more but isn't as springy, I am already content with the Carbo Sound however, I just wish i got it in max as it bottoms out quickly and the ball launches off the wood. I also wish it was slightly faster. The Mantra S feels great but is still too fast. After some research and talking to coaches I got some suggestions which I am sharing to see if anyone has any input. They have to satisfy the following criteria:

1. Good for the current plastic balls.
2. Between 80-90 in speed relative to the paddlepalace scale
3. Medium to low throw angle
4. Lively and springy
5. Has to be softer than 38 deg

I wouldn't pay any attention to those rubbers scales at all on Megaspin. They are a bit of a joke really and a waste of time.

When you have Galaxy Mars II and Reactor Ckylin above Andro Rasant and Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo on the speed scale.......

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

I'd use them in relative and not in absolute as I am not sure how to refer to a speed when there is no universal scale. The paddlepalace scale has been reliable from my experience, but I understand that it might be off on somethings.

How about just an offensive rubber that is control oriented, or a mildly offensive rubber?

My mistake, I looked up Megaspin when you clearly said Paddle Palace.

In my view there are roughly 4 levels of rubbers and depending on your ability and experience as to which you should use. Of course there are many variations of all sorts so its actually impossible to capture everything here but generally I think: -

1) Standard Chinese rubbers - Most 729, LKT, Galaxy all quite similar and are good for starting players (see Iskandars training rubber thread)

2) Classic non-tensor rubbers - Mark V, Sriver, Magic Carbon. A little softer generally than those above and good for drilling stokes and working on technique as the rubber doesn't do all the work and you need to put a little effort in without the fear of the ball going long compared to a tensor.

3) Standard tensor rubbers - Victas V01, Donic Baracuda, Andro Hexer. This is subjective as there are all sorts of speeds and hardness levels but I'm just grouping all these into the catergory which is not the next one.

4) Elite tensor rubbers - Tibhar Evolution, Butterfly Tenergy. Made for elite players and very bouncy and hard to control.

If you can establish what level you are at then buy a rubber in this range then I think you will be pretty close to the mark. If you buy Joola Maxx when maybe Tibhar Aurus suited you more or bought Reactor Corbor when 729 Lightning suited you more, the difference is not likely to really affect your game. If you did however buy Evolution when Mark V was more suitable I think you will notice and potentially regret it, although the reality is you might not realise its actually the equipment, not just see you are missing.

Sorry if you are an elite player and know all this but worth pointing out in case others read the thread.

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

Sorry Chicane,

You want spinny and soft rubber that wont easily get bottomed out? That mythical rubber.



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If I was an elite player...I wouldn't be posting here nor would I be having this discussion

I have an Allround Classic Carbon with Calibra LT spin on it that I use to build and practice proper strokes. I have the most control with this setup. I feel that the blade is too slow and I can handle more speed even for developing my strokes, but that's another discussion. I also have 2 other setups that are OFF+ and OFF that are parked for now. I decided to bring up the Carbonado 145 that I have not been using. As I was researching Hard blade soft rubber, or soft blade hard rubber topics. The soft rubber on the Carbonado 145 is the way to go for me and I am just bouncing ideas on the experienced ones out here for what would they do. I stated the CRITERIA...I know I am on the right track.

I had the 729 Fx on this (Category 1 (C1) in your classification) = no bueno. Maybe the Banda China TS belongs in C1 or C2 for short. Also no bueno. No bueno means no good.

Where do you place Rakza 7 Soft, Calibra LT Spin, Mantra S, Acuda S1 turbo, Bluefire JP 01/Turbo, MX-S, MX-P, and Rakza X. I think they are all C4, or high end C3 at worse. They are all too fast with the Mantra S being the best in this group that I have tried on this blade.

The Neos & Carbo sound are C2 I think. So I am looking at high end C2 or mid range C3. The Carbo sound has the softest sponge and is the best control yet, it also closes down the high throw angle of the blade....it's just a little slow. I generate sufficient (but not super) spin. This setup plays like an ALL or ALL+ and I want to push it to OFF- without compromising control. The only residual problem on the Carbonado 145 is that I miss smashes when I flatten things up. (I know I should stick with the 90 series next time but I am already hung on all wood blades so there won't be more carbon for me). I am willing to give the flat smashing if I can make endless controlled loops...which I think the 145 is well suited for except that it's a little bit of a hyper child.

Max thickness will give me a little more room. It will bottom out and I am fine with that...that's why it's not in the criteria and thus not mythical.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no rubber expert and there would be others that are far more qualified than me to ask but formed by view based on what I've read about Tenergy in that its an expert rubber. I have used MX-P and its the only rubber where I really did find hard to control and couldn't keep on the table so I put it in the same category. Given that some of those above have the word 'Turbo', I think it would be safe to assume that they are faster, bouncier and generally harder to control than their non-turbo counterparts. On that basis I'd agree that they are likely C4 or upper C3 as you have said but then again, given the numberous choice for a more controllable rubber, in this case I think you might as well assume C4. Maybe Rakza 7 Soft is in C3, not sure.

I'd probably put Neos and Carbo sound in C2 if they are non-tensors. Yasaka Original Extra XHD is another.

To me, the feel of the rubber and if it can do what you want is more important than the actual speed itself. About six months ago I did an experiment where I used a hard chinese blade (N11) with some hard chinese rubbers (868) to see if I could play as well with a cheap set up. My results were roughly the same but I had to change my style a little and couldn't play some shots and could play others better but overall didn't enjoy it as much. Earlier this year I picked up a mates bat (Appelgren with MarsII) and really like the feel of it. Was slower but I could play all the shots and have no doubt I could have won just as many with that bat as my usual setup despite being slower.Besides, there's a certain amount of satisfaction to be gained from beating someone using 'slow' equipment. Remember it wasn't that long ago that Mark V was intended for experts. Have we really all become much better players since those days. I'd expect the best players in the clubs at the time that were using those classics now would still tear us apart even if we used the 'best' new age tensors and blades.

So in summary, make sure the rubber and blade has the feel you like, ie soft or hard, tacky or non-tacky etc but don't worry too much about the speed.

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

Iskandar

Soft sponge Yinhe rubbers might appear more suitable as they are really medium hardness compared to tensor range (hence will not bottom out) but are far less bouncy in the short game. I would pick Mars 2 soft (low throw, less spin) or Moon soft (medium throw, better spin). They only come in Max sponge but are IMHO easier to control than soft tensors in 2.0

Cobalt, Thanks for sharing your experience. What resonates with me is your capacity to discriminate one equipment from another. I am the same. I mentioned that there is a setup that I am satisfied with. And the 145 is a fun side project. You mentioned joy so you understand what it feels like when your game flows. That's what I love about racket sports in general. We manipulate objects when learning and we reep the joy when we get to do what we want in a game. The 145/Mantra S is a joy I cannot control yet and for how quickly I want to get there is too much of a change in my stroke. The 145/Carbo sound is a control I can't enjoy.

Without getting too philosophical...Speed does matter because it's part of the feedback feel you use to do what you want with the blade. If it wasn't important, no one would ever give it a rating in trying to quantify it in a product...and it's on every product for a reason. The criteria I asked is achievable but there isn't a universal way to quantify bing bong data...so I am back surveilling my tribesman who enjoyed a fitting rubber that they can recommend.

+1

chicane, rather than say speed doesn't matter, maybe I should have said that if you are a beginner or developing/improving player, don't get caught up too much with speed at this stage. Its unlikely you will win points due to speed, but you could lose them.

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

I have found that lkt rapid soft 2.0mm works well on fast 7 ply Chinese carbon blades. Gives much needed dwell and control. There are quite a few other non tensor Japanese style soft rubbers that should be similar. And they are all quite inexpensive.

Use anything you want.

Speed is 1 of 5 criteria and I am looking for a certain range around an OFF-. I think you are getting caught up in speed as you have not said anything in regards to the remaining characteristics all of which are as important.