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 Post subject: Equipment problem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 01:21 
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I played for 15 years with a premade racket casually ('Tibhar Samsonov Top', which has 'Tibhar Norm' rubbers on it, 1mm I think) and recently joined a club, where everyone immediately started to tell me: you need to get better equipment, this won't do!

So I did it. A TT store guy sold and glued me a basic combo for a nice price: Donic Waldner Allplay blade + 2x Donic Vario 1.5mm rubbers.

However, after many months of trying to learn playing with it, I just can't get as good results as with the Tibhar racket. Whenever I prepare for a match or play one, I just use my old premade racket: great control and if I hit and brush hard I got enough gears to make a very spinny serve and kill shots, loop just fine, great blocks, much control, I can push and receive push very well, even sometimes chopping. I just can't adjust to the speed and sensitivity of most modern rubbers I tried (I tried many rackets from clubmates and friends, the tension rubbers are the worst, like the first time shooting a gun with no training lol). And I'm not even bad with the premade racket: I finished my first competitive season with 72% WR (top 5 in the pool), me and the team were 2nd in the pool.

At a point I heard of antispin rubbers and since many people said that premade racket rubbers (especially the old ones) are basically like antispin rubber, I tried a clubmate's antispin (Yasaka Anti 2mm on ALL blade), and it's not the same at all.

So now I wonder: should I replace this anyways, and with what? Even if I still improve, this racket is indeed quite old, the rubbers lost much grip, it's dirty. All I know is I'm at least looking for very thin and I think soft/medium hard sponge, 1mm maximum, and a blade with high control and good feel, but most things I tried yet I feel don't come close to this cheap Tibhar racket I got. I hope you understand my problem. :sweat:


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 Post subject: Re: Equipment problem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 02:00 
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Here are some pictures of the old Tibhar racket BTW:
https://i.imgur.com/UKxIKZl.png
https://i.imgur.com/FajzIKH.png

Another thing I really like about it is the relatively thick and short 'flare' type handle. Most players in my club have straight handle, the custom one I bought also, and the few flared ones I see are longer and thinner, not as comfortable to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Equipment problem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 02:13 
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I suspect that your technique adapted to the equipment and, well, changing technique is TOUGH. I wonder, however, if you managed to produce decent spin on serves with 15-yr old rubber, what would you be able to do with a good grippy rubber? Serves should be super spinny, no?

You might be a candidate for something like Marder or Reflectoid with thin sponge, these are not that spin-sensitive. Or, for an off-the wall suggestion, may be trying short pips with sponge?

Just for fun - try looking up Rich DeWitt's videos on YouTube (and don't let his physique fool you - he's USATT 2200+ and plays above that level). The reason I bring him up - he plays with dead Mark V rubber and someone I know described his play style as "short pips game but with inverted" - flat strokes with excellent placement and touch. Guy never loops and does not have to.

Example of his match (he's an older gentleman):


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 Post subject: Re: Equipment problem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 02:39 
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pgpg wrote:
I suspect that your technique adapted to the equipment and, well, changing technique is TOUGH. I wonder, however, if you managed to produce decent spin on serves with 15-yr old rubber, what would you be able to do with a good grippy rubber? Serves should be super spinny, no?

You might be a candidate for something like Marder or Reflectoid with thin sponge, these are not that spin-sensitive. Or, for an off-the wall suggestion, may be trying short pips with sponge?

Just for fun - try looking up Rich DeWitt's videos on YouTube (and don't let his physique fool you - he's USATT 2200+ and plays above that level). The reason I bring him up - he plays with dead Mark V rubber and someone I know described his play style as "short pips game but with inverted" - flat strokes with excellent placement and touch. Guy never loops and does not have to.

Example of his match (he's an older gentleman):


Yes it really has to do with the equipment, for sure. BUT, I did learn the proper technique with this equipment. The trainers say my loops are technically very good, my footwork is getting better and so on.

I don't think the problem is not being able to play with a good grippy top sheet. Of course currently my top sheet has lost a lot of grip, but it still spins. I can indeed get way more spin with other equipment I've tried, including the custom I bought. The problem is on the whole it feels like I lack control and the gears I have with the premade. I will never get such a spinny loop with the Tibhar racket as with the Donic Vario rubbers, but the simple fact the same stroke will be good enough and much more placed and controlled hwere I want it with the old racket means I do better with it. So my current thought is something with similar characteristics to what I currently have, same sponge thickness and similar speed pips-in, but spinnier (anything will be spinnier than this simply because it will be new). And yes I heard good things about thin Yasaka Mk V and Gambler Reflectoid (this one seems closer to current rubber, a lot of control), but what is Marder?

That guy plays very well, but he is more a flat hit and blocker. I loop a lot and some blocks but mostly looping. I could probably play my game well with his equipment however.


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 Post subject: Re: Equipment problem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 02:55 
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Spinlord Marder, defensive rubber that comes in quite a few thickness options. You can get it at tabletennis11.com

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 Post subject: Re: Equipment problem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 03:04 
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pgpg wrote:
Spinlord Marder, defensive rubber that comes in quite a few thickness options. You can get it at tabletennis11.com

I see, thanks. I will consider 1mm Marder 2 (2 seems the best version according to reviews) on a ALL blade.


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 Post subject: Re: Equipment problem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 03:09 
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They are quite different, though, from what I've heard. Marder is more defense oriented, I believe.

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 Post subject: Re: Equipment problem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 03:10 
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+1 on reflectoid, it's a great rubber for $14

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 Post subject: Re: Equipment problem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 03:39 
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I am not sure what is going on. Twice now I have typed a rather lengthy post, submitted and each time it redirects me back to this thread the post is gone. Not sure what is up, but I don't have the heart to type 500 words of the same thing a third time.

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 Post subject: Re: Equipment problem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 04:41 
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Ranger-man wrote:
I am not sure what is going on. Twice now I have typed a rather lengthy post, submitted and each time it redirects me back to this thread the post is gone. Not sure what is up, but I don't have the heart to type 500 words of the same thing a third time.


I saw that(or similar thing) happen when new post appeared while you were writing yours, which is quite likely if you are writing a long one.

In this case it effectively asks you "do you want to reconsider/amend your post?" and at least once I chose the wrong answer and my post was gone. I think if you persist with "Post it!" option, it goes through, but as your experience shows, it can be frustrating and confusing.

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 Post subject: Re: Equipment problem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 04:56 
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Gewo return drive in 1.7 is a really nice control rubber with good spin.

Why not try putting a new slow rubber or one of your varios on the old Tibhar blade. It could be quite a bit slower than the Allplay and you like the handle.

Care re going too thin on the rubber as with the new ball it may result in loss of control and spin on hard contacts.


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 Post subject: Re: Equipment problem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 06:08 
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ChasFox wrote:
Gewo return drive in 1.7 is a really nice control rubber with good spin.

Why not try putting a new slow rubber or one of your varios on the old Tibhar blade. It could be quite a bit slower than the Allplay and you like the handle.

Care re going too thin on the rubber as with the new ball it may result in loss of control and spin on hard contacts.

That Gewo rubber sounds nice but I can't find a place that sells it.

I would put new rubbers on this blade but this is a factory-assembled racket, which I read the rubbers are glued on so they can't be removed easily, then even if I manage it the blade will likely be damaged and splintered as well as the sponge bits will remain on and a lot of glue remains. Maybe if TT shops can do this for me I may do it. Is this a common service I can ask them?

For the handle, it seems such a thick flare handle is rare. But there is the Stiga flare handle which I read is similar to this one (quite thick). I have considered maybe a Stiga blade that will be as slow as the Tibhar premade blade, for example Stiga Allround Classic. If I get the rubber removed I can compare it to other blades feel with a ball just on the wood directly.


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 Post subject: Re: Equipment problem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 06:17 
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Ok I am going to give it another go, lol. This time going to type in MS Word lol.

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 Post subject: Re: Equipment problem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 06:35 
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I believe that your main problem is that you have gotten so used to how your premade plays that now the new setup is a bit of a learning and adjustment curve. I would assume the premade is almost dead now and almost plays like a hardbat, or close to it so a brand new grippy rubber with a thicker sponge is a serious change. I don’t think there is any rubber out there with 1.5mm sponge that will play even close to your premade.

So, first off, and this is just my opinion but I would not recommend that you use the old blade anymore, not even with new rubbers. The wood will splinter and peel when you try to change rubbers. I feel the Waldner Allplay is by no means a crazy fast or hard-to-control blade and your coach should be able to tell you how to adjust your strokes so that you start to develop the technique you need to control it. So I don’t really believe that the blade is the problem here.

I believe the same to be true with the rubbers. The rubbers are in the Sriver range – maybe marginally faster – but still pretty good for players to develop their strokes on. So you should be able to manage it as well since you are more advanced than a beginner. Also, I think 1.5mm is thin enough. Any thinner and you run the risk of bottoming out, which will bring the wood into play, which will actually lead to a lack of control on your shots and returns and blocks.
This is my opinion.

I would suggest that you increase your time practicing your technique – a bit more than you already do to speed the process up. Maybe adjust your table tennis time in a way that is skewed bit more in favor of practice and less towards actual games, above what you already do. The reason I am saying this is because in matches when winning is the target we often tend to fall back into old habits and try to get the point “by any means necessary.” In practice, you will do what needs to be done to improve your technique since you won’t be chasing points.

It won’t hurt to try the Gewo rubber too, and you can switch later on when your strokes are developed according to the new setup. But stick with the Donic blade.

If you find the handle is too thin then you can get grip tape for it. They have that for table tennis rackets just like tennis and badminton.
I have seen players at the club where I usually hang out go through similar phases and they have come out brilliantly. I am pretty sure you will too.

Here are some places that sell the Gewo rubber.

https://www.tt-megastore.de/gewo-return-drive.html

http://www.misterping.com/gewo-return-drive.html

http://www.ittfshop.ru/product/gewo-return-drive

http://fletcherstewart.com/view-by-divi ... stewart_gb

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 Post subject: Re: Equipment problem
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 06:36 
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yay! I did it!!!! :party:

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