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 Post subject: Speed glue!
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2007, 02:12 
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I read ppl talk/argue about SG in other forum. and I think they get it wrong.

These are what I think
1. SG is the ultimate weapon for very good players. Pro - Semi pro - advance level)
2. SG is the ultimate liable that slow down developing process/time of intermediate and beginner level. It doesn't help....it hurts.
3. I don't believe that most intermediate players has the speed to get the advantage of SG. They can't tell which one is glued or not glued by only hitting/looping.

I use SG only when playing against better players who have good defense, blocking and/or loop often.

What's your thought?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2007, 03:16 
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My thought is that there are going to be a lot of players this fall who will discover that the game can still be played at a high level without it.
I don't use it myself, although I do plan on giving EE2 a try. I think the fact that the volitile organic solvents are a health risk seems to be lost on many people using speed glue. There seems to be a notion among them that this is all a conspiracy to keep them playing at a lower level. The neurological damage from certain solvents like heptane is well documented and is listed on the MSDS for rubber cement, along with most of the side effects of prolonged exposer and inhalation. It's not pretty at all-- we're talking about life altering brain/neurological damage as well as a highly increased risk of tissue damage to lungs, possibly even resulting in cancer.
I have two boys who are learning to play table tennis and I have no intention of exposing them to this stuff. There's just no need. They're both developing at a great pace without it. They don't need the extra speed or spin, they're already challenged enough with the basics.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2007, 06:49 
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speedplay wrote:
I think you as well as many other player under estimate the beginner of this game, certainly their ability to feel if you doubt that they can feel the effects of speed glue...


Not sure if you're talking to me or Bogeyhunter, but I believe that what you're saying may be true-- maybe beginners can tell-- I won't disagree with that, but I still say they don't need it to improve or become good, and the health risks aren't worth it, for me personally.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2007, 07:53 
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Some very points here... I think if no-one uses it anymore, it would be a lvel playing field. But while many still use it, it can be a real disadvantage not to use it...

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2007, 08:36 
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Interesting post about speed glue. I have played against speed glue players, some at high levels and some at lower levels, at lower levels I can beat these players at the higher levels I loose against the player. But then again if the higher standard player wasn’t using speed glue, they would still beat me.

I wonder how much gain there really is from speed glue, surely to effectively use it, you would have to be playing at a reasonably high level in the first place.

Haggisv, you play at a high level where speed glue seems to be used by everyone. Do you think you would be at a disadvantage if you don’t use it? Would your winning percentage decrease without glue?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2007, 08:51 
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Speedplay. I never seen you play and don't know your level but I don't think you are a beginner. :roll:

My main point is not about can they tell glued rubber or not. I've seen many beginners who have poor basic and make too many mistakes but use speed glue believing that it helps their performance and their loop.

From what I see, most beginners should use med - slow stuffs to improve stroke and touch.

My student changed from schlager carbon+ 2 bryce to Dawei wavestone + Saviga and he's played better since the change.
I've been telling many ppl(beginner and low rated) that SG doesn't help. They should not use it and pay attention to the basic strokes and consistency. Only a few listen to me. :cry:

I agree that using SG sometimes is not a good idea. It just I kinda lazy to glue when playing lower rated players. Just like unglued-2500 rated players can beat me easily...so why bother glue?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2007, 09:16 
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wavestones aren't slow...
Well, they're slower than SCs, but they're faster than TBSes and KLHS and all that.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2007, 09:34 
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I'm convinced they give more feel and control for those that have a reasonbly well developed loop. Blocking seems easier, and for loops the extra spin and speed means they often don't come back.
Against choppers they're a great weapon, since they often cannot even get to the ball...

I do agree that they're no good for developing players, as they make you lazy, and slow down or halt your progress...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2007, 09:41 
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I play against better (higher grade) players who don't use SG. For me, seeing these players play indicates that I can win and be good at TT even without using SG.

Only when I'm in the top 10 of our club will I even consider using SG. But when I'm at that level, I'll probably be using a faster blade and my technique is probably way better that I've already compensated to playing without SG.

BTW one of our top players (TOP 10 at least) in our club started using rubbers with "built-in" SG effects and he's still winning his matches.

What does that tell me? I don't really need SG to win in TT or to get any advantage.

Caveat: if I'm a Pro (eg. like Boll) my views might be different :roll: . My next meal will depend on it. :)


Last edited by gundam on 14 Apr 2007, 03:01, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2007, 10:34 
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haggisv wrote:
I'm convinced they give more feel and control for those that have a reasonbly well developed loop. Blocking seems easier, and for loops the extra spin and speed means they often don't come back.
Against choppers they're a great weapon, since they often cannot even get to the ball...


I'm with you here.
SG does improve the loop and makes blocking considerably faster. One chopper was telling me about how annoyed at speedglue he was because he just didn't have time to chop it properly.

I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't be speedgluing until you can play the strokes properly & consistently (ie, training doesn't consist of you doing nothing but practicing loops) and have a reasonably defined game.

built in sg effect rubber aren't anywhere near as fast as a properly glued up rubber, but retain the soft feel & control. At a recent tournament I went to, all but the top players (and the C players. Also a large % of B players) were using tensors (namely tango). A couple of the top players were using tango extrem on a fast carbon blade, but the rest were fast rubbers sged on an off blade.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2007, 13:12 
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SG

Advantage

- If your looping strokes are seasoned, Increased speed & Spin
- Reacts less to incoming spin
- Feels a hell of a lot better than a dead racket.

Disadvantage

- If you don't have a strong looping stroke, Increases inconsistency and brings improvement to a standstill.
- Short game suffers big time without intensive focus.
- Setup changes every time as gluing is never the same twice.
- Rubbers are softened by a few degree's after awhile, also die much faster.
- Cant be good having that stuff around your lungs every time you play.
- $ Broken Wallet

Thats my opinion of it all, I do glue up occasionally (once a month? or reviewing rubbers) other than that I try to steer clear of the stuff.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2007, 04:40 
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I agree, I would say that I'm still a beginer, but I can definately tell a difference between a glued up bat and one that is not. It's mostly the feel that gives it away...kind of hard to describe though. But I think the main idea BH was getting at was that beginner shouldn't use speedglue b/c it can interfere with learning the proper fundamental strokes (not to mention the ban is coming up anyway)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2007, 05:02 
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Joo Se Kev wrote:
(not to mention the ban is coming up anyway)

I'm waiting for it to actually come out. I got smashed hard with super fast glued bat last weekend and it was bad enough to destroy my confidence.!!! I did chop it back 3-4 balls for the whole match!!! :oops:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2007, 09:50 
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EE II on the BTY rubbers all the way! They are mediocre without sponge treatment.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2007, 10:44 
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Does SG count as sponge treatment?
I quite like Sriver FX with several layers of fair chack on it :P

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