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 Post subject: Re: Not bouncy rubbers
PostPosted: 21 May 2019, 09:05 
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iskandar taib wrote:
And if you want an amazing blade to replace your Defplay, try this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SANWEI- ... 84830.html


Iskandar


It's unreal, how is it even possible to make a good racket that costs $5 ????
And what is even more disturbing I probably wouldn't even notice the difference from $60 racket :(


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 Post subject: Re: Not bouncy rubbers
PostPosted: 21 May 2019, 15:06 
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Yeah, I was really surprised too. Actually it's more like $8.50 including shipping. I got my first one for $9, and then several more. What I tell people is to buy one even if they're getting another blade anyway, they can always use it as a loaner racket or give it away if they don't like it, it's so cheap. I have several more expensive blades (including a Darker 7p2a and a Nittaku Septear) and I prefer the M8 over those. Just so much control and feel. It's also pretty lightweight (75-80 grams).

The problem with the Defplay and other similar blades is they're designed to be used with one sheet of long pips. If you put two inverted sheets on them they get really heavy.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Not bouncy rubbers
PostPosted: 21 May 2019, 15:59 
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For what it's worth some years ago I tried 729 fx on Defplay and it didn't go well,lack of rubber dynamics on slowish blade is a bad fit.
Oversize Defplay will always feel heavy with 2 chinese rubbers the senso technology makes the blade head heavy even with ox pips on one side,a few on here have reduced the head size to get the weight down,it is still head heavy somewhat even after that
Sriver fx was too soft Sriver el worked well btw in celluloid era on Defpla even with thinnest sponge

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 Post subject: Re: Not bouncy rubbers
PostPosted: 21 May 2019, 18:02 
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iskandar taib wrote:
The problem with the Defplay and other similar blades is they're designed to be used with one sheet of long pips. If you put two inverted sheets on them they get really heavy.
Iskandar

A bit of wisdom I didn't have when I bought it.

I put M8 on my list, with that price tag it won't put my kids on the streets. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Not bouncy rubbers
PostPosted: 21 May 2019, 18:04 
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Save the Defplay for when/if you decide to try long pips... :lol: Looks like everyone does, at some point...

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Not bouncy rubbers
PostPosted: 21 May 2019, 18:06 
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dazzler wrote:
For what it's worth some years ago I tried 729 fx on Defplay and it didn't go well,lack of rubber dynamics on slowish blade is a bad fit.
Oversize Defplay will always feel heavy with 2 chinese rubbers the senso technology makes the blade head heavy even with ox pips on one side,a few on here have reduced the head size to get the weight down,it is still head heavy somewhat even after that
Sriver fx was too soft Sriver el worked well btw in celluloid era on Defpla even with thinnest sponge


I am considering to reduce head size of Defplay, just need to figure out how to it neatly and not to mess up this beautiful creation ( I am serious, though it didn't work for me)

What do you mean Sriver FX is too soft? How does softness manifest itself in the negative way?
I was searching for softer sponge rubber, thinking it would help me with control.


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 Post subject: Re: Not bouncy rubbers
PostPosted: 21 May 2019, 20:03 
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iskandar taib wrote:
The problem with the Defplay and other similar blades is they're designed to be used with one sheet of long pips. If you put two inverted sheets on them they get really heavy.

The Defplay blades are typically around 80g, so not heavy by any means (even thought they're slightly oversize), in fact most would consider this relatively light.
I agree it's the rubber that make heavier, and because the blade is a little oversize it adds a little more rubber. However if you pick lighter rubbers, it won't feel heavy at all. Hard sponged Chinese rubbers tend to be heavy, so that would certainly make the whole thing heavy. However pick something like 729 FX Super Soft or KTL XT, which is quite light rubbers, and the overall weight will be quite light.

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 Post subject: Re: Not bouncy rubbers
PostPosted: 21 May 2019, 22:58 
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haggisv wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
The problem with the Defplay and other similar blades is they're designed to be used with one sheet of long pips. If you put two inverted sheets on them they get really heavy.

The Defplay blades are typically around 80g, so not heavy by any means (even thought they're slightly oversize), in fact most would consider this relatively light.
I agree it's the rubber that make heavier, and because the blade is a little oversize it adds a little more rubber. However if you pick lighter rubbers, it won't feel heavy at all. Hard sponged Chinese rubbers tend to be heavy, so that would certainly make the whole thing heavy. However pick something like 729 FX Super Soft or KTL XT, which is quite light rubbers, and the overall weight will be quite light.

True, the racket itself is not heavy.
It is the extra rubber that makes it heavy, quite head heavy as well.

I am not convinced that 729 FX Super Soft is much lighter than 729 FX, I have actually used both, mixed and matched based on the sponge thickness I needed and stock availability.
It's impossible to see now which one is normal FX and which is Super Soft, the labeling on both is exactly the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Not bouncy rubbers
PostPosted: 28 May 2019, 22:35 
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Just to conclude, there was nothing wrong with 729 Super FX.
It just doesn't work on Defplay for beginner trying to develop offensive game.

Advice from Iskander "ditch the blade, keep the rubber" worked really well.
Done that and improving in leaps just in single week.
It will work as FH rubber for me.
Thanks!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Not bouncy rubbers
PostPosted: 29 May 2019, 10:11 
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That's good to hear. What blade did you end up getting?

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Not bouncy rubbers
PostPosted: 29 May 2019, 13:32 
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I've got two all wood Donic rackets - they are stripped of rubber pre-mades.
Thin, light, no frills wood. I like them.
They were used for experimentation, until I figured out that rubbers can actually be moved from racket to racket.

But now I got N11s.
I didn't want to wait too long for M8.

And I am still gonna be fiddling with Defplay... just because I want to and enjoy doing it.


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 Post subject: Re: Not bouncy rubbers
PostPosted: 29 May 2019, 14:37 
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I used to use the previous version (N11), which was a nice blade. The N11s is the same, except I couldn't find one less than 80g. It's a little faster than the M8 - enough faster that I found it impossible to chop with it. Since I switched to the M8 I haven't used anything else.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Not bouncy rubbers
PostPosted: 29 May 2019, 18:03 
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Mine N11s is 84g, the lightest they could find in stock for me.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with build quality.
The only slight annoyance is the flared handle.
I like to play with straight, I can tolerate slightly flared like the Donics, but this one is flared a lot.
To a degree I feel it pushes up my hand, the sensation I do not enjoy.
But I assume it's a matter of habit and I'll get used to it, or sharp knife will fix the issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Not bouncy rubbers
PostPosted: 31 May 2019, 11:31 
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Zverev wrote:
I am not convinced that 729 FX Super Soft is much lighter than 729 FX, I have actually used both, mixed and matched based on the sponge thickness I needed and stock availability.
It's impossible to see now which one is normal FX and which is Super Soft, the labeling on both is exactly the same.

I've glued many Super soft and 729 FX rubbers, the Super soft are clearly much lighter, I can feel it as soon as I pick up the rubber sheets.
However, as with all rubbers at the cheaper end of the scale, there is significant variation between sheets, so if you compare two sheets the difference may not be as great.
You're right about not being able to identify them once they're glued on, the markings on the topsheet are the same. I suspect the Supersoft has a thinner topsheet than the 729 Super FX, as well as having a softer sponge. Both result in a lighter sheet.
Note also that the Super Soft tends to be more bouncy, although the 'tack' on the topsheet significantly reduces this when it's still tacky, but once the tack wears off, it will feel more bouncy. Usually softer sponges results in more bouncy sheets.

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 Post subject: Re: Not bouncy rubbers
PostPosted: 31 May 2019, 13:55 
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Thanks
Since I have moved 729 FX from Defplay, the weight of rubber is not that important for me anymore.

regarding the bounce, I think that the tack simply masks the bounce, particularly when the surface adhesive force that comes from the tack is comparable to rebouce force, like when you lightly bounce the ball on the racket.

I am coming to conclusion, though being new to this sport, that tackiness is the cheap way the Chinese come up with in order to produce a reasonable throw angle or spin.

High tech rubbers can produce high throw angle being non tacky - that is what advanced european technology can do.

I would greatly appreciate if anyone could point me to such rubber that is possible to buy at a reasonable price.
And yes, Tenergy 05 is such rubber, the price is prohibitive at an amateur level though.


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