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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2019, 14:26 
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I have not seen worse balls than these.
Even Kmart bucket balls have better quality.
The center of gravity is shifted from geometrical one so much that when you spin the ball on the table it is visibly wobbling around.
It's made of plastic, new material.
It's even different on touch from other balls we played with, which were might still be old celluloid balls.

These Joola balls have much lower bounce, topspin shots just slide, like the ball hit something on the table.
It's probably slower as our rallies became longer, kinda everything was going in.

Generally I discovered that if the balls would be better quality I do not mind plastic balls.
However it did stuffed up my serve.
Same motion, the ball just doesn't go over the net, not enough bounce, not sufficient spin.
So adjustments are necessary.

Anyway, Joola should be ashamed of producing these balls.
3 stars? No way.


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2019, 14:45 
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Yes, everyone uses them at our club because people play in the Joola annual teams tournament, but everyone also thinks they are awful. They move inconsistently, dive down on both topspin and underspin, lurch sideways with sidespin, and, at the same time, don't actually spin all that much, so that a defender trying to chop-block or chop with them still often gets the ball slapped or loop-driven right back at them. I've written to Joola about these balls, and I'd suggest everyone else do so as well. Here's their customer service email: [email protected]

_________________
I. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
II. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
V. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
USATT Rating: 2037


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2019, 16:01 
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Thanks
Just emailed them.


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PostPosted: 12 Aug 2019, 11:02 
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So what exactly are these balls? MOST balls out there that are sold by the likes of Joola or Donic or Stiga or Stag are OEMed by DHS, and would be the same as the DHS D40+ (unless they're seamless, in which case they're OEMed by XuShaoFa). The D40+ is an excellent ball, it's in widespread use at the topmost levels of the sport, though there are certain people who don't like them for various reasons. The Joola balls sound nothing like the D40+, but if they're not, what are they?

By the way, there's specific subsection of the Forum for balls.. maybe this should be moved there?

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 12 Aug 2019, 21:13 
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These are the balls
https://www.amazon.com/JOOLA-3-Star-Tab ... 358&sr=8-3
Sure, very cheap.

I didn't realize there is section for balls.
Yes this should be moved there.


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PostPosted: 12 Aug 2019, 22:55 
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According to the official website (https://www.joolausa.com/Training-40mm- ... 1&color=18), they are for recreational use. I wouldn't expect any competitional balls quality from them.

Also, the size (40 mm) suggests that they don't belong to the latest generation of plastic balls, which are 40+. They might be made of plastic (or celluloid, who knows) but for the previous era of balls.


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PostPosted: 14 Aug 2019, 02:28 
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Those are training balls, not three star tournament balls. Besides, yes, they look like celluloid balls (easy test - set one on fire). Training balls are meant for use in robots and multiball drills and not for games - usually they're of inferior quality and a LOT cheaper. I don't see any point in complaining about them - you pays your money and you takes your choice, as they say. Mind you, the old celluloid one-star Double Fish balls were actually excellent, as good as the three star ones. I still have four boxes of them.

There's actually four Joola balls in the LIAB - a seamed one, a seamless one, the old celluloid one and the new ABS one. These are the good ones, but you will pay a lot more than $5.95 for a dozen.

https://ittf.cdnomega.com/eu/2019/07/Balls_2019_11.pdf

I wish they had the ball logos on the website, but they don't any more.

If you're not using the ABS one then you're using old stuff. It'd be funny and ironic if you think the old celluloid ball is terrible, given all the invective that's been expended in the last 2-3 years on the new plastic balls.

I think these are the ABS ones:

https://www.amazon.com/JOOLA-Super-Plas ... ef=sr_1_23

Incidentally.... check this out:

https://www.amazon.com/JOOLA-Table-Tenn ... 46-8166113

:lol: (Those look like the old 3 star celluloid balls... the REAL ones... there are people on this forum who'd prefer to play with those rather than with plastic balls...)

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 14 Aug 2019, 03:34 
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I am definitely talking about the plastic balls. I have a box of them, and they're clearly the ABS balls. And they are AWFUL for all the reasons described above! I don't have these issues with the DHS balls or any other ABS balls.

_________________
I. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
II. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
V. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
USATT Rating: 2037


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PostPosted: 14 Aug 2019, 04:57 
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Our club uses the Joola Prime ABS 3-star balls and they are well liked. Not really seen the issues you are having. In fact, we put out about 30 balls per table and mix the Prime 3-star with the Joola Magic ABS Training Balls almost no one looks at which ball they are using.

I did have one bad box of balls from Joola but that turned out to be my own fault as I left the box in the car for a few hours on a hot day. The balls actually expanded in size and were unplayable.

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Denver, CO, USA
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Joola Badman OX
Joola Ultra Express 2.0


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PostPosted: 14 Aug 2019, 06:28 
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:
I am definitely talking about the plastic balls. I have a box of them, and they're clearly the ABS balls. And they are AWFUL for all the reasons described above! I don't have these issues with the DHS balls or any other ABS balls.


So you are NOT using the training balls from Amazon, that posted by the initial poster?

There are two manufacturers in China who make ABS balls - DHS and Double Fish (and one, maybe two in Japan). Joola doesn't make their own balls. So I find it hard to believe the Joola balls are so different from the other ABS balls.

Interesting thing I noticed in the LIAB... Kingnik balls are now seamed. The seamless ones are no longer on the list. Which reinforces my belief that the DHS factory in the famous video is actually the Minkow factory, and Minkow OEMs for DHS as well as a whole slew of other companies (Stiga, Donic, Yinhe etc.) as was listed on their website.

The balls which had a strong tendency to bounce sideways with sidespin were actually the seamless ones (XuShaofa and the brands it OEMed for).

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 14 Aug 2019, 07:22 
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CoachMcAfee wrote:
Our club uses the Joola Prime ABS 3-star balls and they are well liked. Not really seen the issues you are having. In fact, we put out about 30 balls per table and mix the Prime 3-star with the Joola Magic ABS Training Balls almost no one looks at which ball they are using.

I did have one bad box of balls from Joola but that turned out to be my own fault as I left the box in the car for a few hours on a hot day. The balls actually expanded in size and were unplayable.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but you guys are sponsored by Joola, are you not? With that in mind, and in light of the near-universal opinion of those balls I've heard from players at a variety of levels, I find it hard to believe that the Joola ABS balls are "well liked." Neither I nor any of the other members of my club have any particular reason to like or dislike these balls, other than their actual playing characteristics, and their playing characteristics have been discussed widely. There is only one player I know of in my club who actually likes those balls, and he only likes them in comparison to the XuShaoFa balls that he believes were more inconsistent in quality. The Joola balls may be more consistent than XuShaoFa, but they are consistently awful. I've described their precise playing characteristics in this thread above. The upshot is that, on the one hand, it's too easy to hit through their spin (they have this part in common with other ABS balls), but on the other hand (and this is the part that's distinct and distinctly bad), they lurch wildly in response to imparted spin, even when it's not actually that much spin, shooting downward on both topspin and underspin and shooting off to the side on sidespin. They do this much more than any other balls I've ever played with. I have never seen so many players flat-out miss the ball or have it hit their racket's bottom or side edge because they expected the ball to bounce higher or stay on a straighter trajectory than it did. The highest rated player at my club (2500+) simply refuses to play with them and uses the much better Nittaku ABS ball. The owner of the club, a former national champion in his country, also hates the balls. Another player with whom I've taken lessons sometimes, who is himself around 2300, has said on many occasions that these Joola balls make him think about stopping table tennis. And, of all the players around my level (around 2000) or a bit above or below, as I said, I know only one who likes the Joola balls, though even he thinks the Nittaku balls are much better.

iskandar taib wrote:
So you are NOT using the training balls from Amazon, that posted by the initial poster?


No, definitely not.

iskandar taib wrote:
The balls which had a strong tendency to bounce sideways with sidespin were actually the seamless ones (XuShaofa and the brands it OEMed for).


Never found that to be the case. With XuShaoFa, the quality control was not always great, so what you might've been experiencing is some of the asymmetrical balls behaving asymmetrically. But I've NEVER missed so many sidespin balls as I've missed after we started playing with Joola. There are at least two players at the club who, noticing the crazy response of these Joola balls to sidespin, have adapted their game and started incorporating a lot more sidespin in their loops and even thrown in more sidespin lobs. They never did this with the XuShaoFa ball. I also notice that when I do sideswipes with my long pips against these balls, I generate a LOT more misses (air-balls) on the ensuing loop attempts.

I have no ax to grind with Joola, have happily used some of their equipment (like the Joola Badman OX) in the past with great success, enjoy their annual teams tournament and generally don't have any issue with the company, but I do think Joola should be absolutely embarrassed in selling a shoddy product like this.

iskandar taib wrote:
There are two manufacturers in China who make ABS balls - DHS and Double Fish (and one, maybe two in Japan). Joola doesn't make their own balls. So I find it hard to believe the Joola balls are so different from the other ABS balls.


I don't know the ins and outs of the manufacturing process, but the other ABS balls I've played with extensively are the DHS ABS ball and the Nittaku ABS ball. I don't have these issues with those balls. Perhaps there are other balls that play just like the Joola. If so, they should also be pulled from the market and replaced with something a bit more "professional."

_________________
I. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
II. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
V. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
USATT Rating: 2037


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PostPosted: 14 Aug 2019, 11:03 
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:
.........I've described their precise playing characteristics in this thread above. The upshot is that, on the one hand, it's too easy to hit through their spin (they have this part in common with other ABS balls), but on the other hand (and this is the part that's distinct and distinctly bad), they lurch wildly in response to imparted spin, even when it's not actually that much spin, shooting downward on both topspin and underspin and shooting off to the side on sidespin. They do this much more than any other balls I've ever played with. I have never seen so many players flat-out miss the ball or have it hit their racket's bottom or side edge because they expected the ball to bounce higher or stay on a straighter trajectory than it did. The highest rated player at my club (2500+) simply refuses to play with them and uses the much better Nittaku ABS ball. The owner of the club, a former national champion in his country, also hates the balls. Another player with whom I've taken lessons sometimes, who is himself around 2300, has said on many occasions that these Joola balls make him think about stopping table tennis. And, of all the players around my level (around 2000) or a bit above or below, as I said, I know only one who likes the Joola balls, though even he thinks the Nittaku balls are much better.

............I also notice that when I do sideswipes with my long pips against these balls, I generate a LOT more misses (air-balls) on the ensuing loop attempts.

...........I do think Joola should be absolutely embarrassed in selling a shoddy product like this.

.......................................


It's just spot on description of how the balls behave.
I concur with the sentiment as well - A SHODDY PRODUCT.
Not suitable for any purpose, training, machine, or what ever.

Complaining or not complaining... neither myself or anyone around here would ever buy Joola balls again... end of story


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PostPosted: 14 Aug 2019, 12:12 
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Well, I really don't know what to say. Our club membership which ranges up to a couple of 2500+ players seem happy with the balls. Our club buys the balls and does not receive them free. However, I respect everyone's opinion about the new balls as it has certainly been a hard road for for each player to find a ball they like and can play with. I know there are balls that I hate and others find quite ok.

Several of us from the Denver Area, will be traveling to the LA Open in a few weeks where they will be using the Joola Prime Ball. I look to hearing what players from around the country feel about the ball. Hopefully the ball manufacturing will continue to improve to a point where we don't have to worry about which ball will be used in a particular tournament anymore. From a coaching perspective, it does cause problems to have to change balls for training all the time, to prepare for specific events.

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Denver, CO, USA
Re-Impact Custom Blade
Joola Badman OX
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PostPosted: 14 Aug 2019, 13:25 
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CoachMcAfee wrote:
Hopefully the ball manufacturing will continue to improve to a point where we don't have to worry about which ball will be used in a particular tournament anymore. From a coaching perspective, it does cause problems to have to change balls for training all the time, to prepare for specific events.


Well, all else aside, I can definitely agree with this sentiment. It's ridiculous that there are currently such stark differences among various brands of balls that players have to be mindful of what they're using and adjust their play/technique to cope with these differences. This game is challenging enough without this headache.

_________________
I. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
II. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
V. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
USATT Rating: 2037


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PostPosted: 14 Aug 2019, 18:07 
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Zverev wrote:
It's just spot on description of how the balls behave.
I concur with the sentiment as well - A SHODDY PRODUCT.
Not suitable for any purpose, training, machine, or what ever.

Complaining or not complaining... neither myself or anyone around here would ever buy Joola balls again... end of story


Uh, if you're using the training ball, well, that's a totally different ball anyway. It's like buying some of those Beer Pong balls you see on Amazon and complaining about them. Get some of the proper balls first, and THEN complain about them if they're no good.

Iskandar


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