OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Even though there's still 10 months to go before the frictionless ban, like many people I'm searching for something new now.

At the moment I'm swapping P1-r .5 (soft), Nittaku's Pimplemini 1.0, 388d-1 1.0, and Xiom's Guillotine 1.2 between 3 blades.

The story so far-

388D-1
First off I just hated 388d-1 (I've not tried the new version). It's alarmingly sensitive to incoming spin, and didn't seem to offer a lot in return. I'd thought I'd like it because it's got very soft pips. Nope. After 1h's play I was still pushing underspin pushes/serves into the net. To be fair my pip pushing technique grew using frictionless OX, but this pip is just too grippy for me. Perhaps players with better adjusted strokes would like this pip more.

P1-r
Wow, this is easy to use. Very nice to do almost anything with. It's very slow and I could chop back fast drives away from the table with lots of margin. Alex has already reviewed this so I won't duplicate, but it surprised me. Yes, more grippy than frictionless (doh), but still nice to use over the table, and wonderful to chop with away from the table.

Xiom Guillotine-
This surprised me even more. Over the table, this very soft pip with 1.2 sponge seems even less grippy than the P1-r. Perhaps because the soft pips that grip just bend rather than changing the ball flight? Something wonderful is happening anyway. That's with light/brush contact- which with pips this soft, is extremely easy to do. Then, when you do dig the ball in you can create a reasonable amount of your own spin. This pip is also fast when you dig the ball into the sponge. There’s definitely a mild tensor feeling.

I loved using the Guillotine over the table. Flips (which I’m not good at) could be done very aggressively. This was really nice, but just the beginning. Using Guillotine was my first experience at looping against loop with a pip, and the resulting ball looking like a true counter topspin return. The speed is quick, the bat angle (thanks to soft pips) is believable, there’s no sound to give away the pips, the ball flight looks convincing, and the ball arrives with underspin (against a spinny loop, not a flat hit) and gets hit into the net every time. Mathias and Hookshot have posted about the beauty of this animal. A thing of beauty it really is.

Away from the table, I struggled. I just couldn’t return powerful loops short enough. It was easy with the P1-r .5mm, I just bungled my way through and they kept landing, and fairly low. I can see that with skill the Guillotine is a more dangerous rubber- but I don’t have that skill yet. Power loopers would destroy me if I tried to chop against them with this rubber right now. BTW I tried the Guillotine on a Matsushita Pro, & even a Dr N Barricade Def blade (one of the slowest blades you can buy). In Alex’s review he mentioned the extra speed but didn’t seem the least bothered by it. Maybe I just need to get further back from the table? This leaves the angles more open. I wish I had a coach.

Wanted-
A semi-frictionless/grippy, very soft l/p on 1.0-1.3mm sponge that is not soo fast.

Comments please.

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>> Wanted-
A semi-frictionless/grippy, very soft l/p on 1.0-1.3mm sponge that is not soo fast.

I am also more concerned about speed than friction level. I think if we just wait for Dr N, Hallmark, maybe joola,donic,tsp etc to come up with the best they can to beat the ^&*% rule we'll get at least slow rubbers that are semi-frictionless that are considerably better than anything available today.

Sounds like that xiom Guilotine plays alot like Screw Soft but I have not used it to compare speed. That is the same thought I had about Screw Soft, if only it was a little slower,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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Nice summary Shoebox9... I pretty much agree with all that!

Although I didn't find the 388d-1 quiet as bad as you describe either... it's probably a style thing... the way you hit it makes it more sensitive...

The P-1r on 1mm might fit the bill.. although I think LawOCG mentioned this was a lot harder to control...

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LawOCG compared the P1-r .5 to the P1-r Hard Sponged 1.0mm. The soft sponged 1.0 would be slower and easier to use.

For my next test I'm going to glue my P1-r .5 to a sheet of .6 sponge and try again. I imagine this would be 80% the same as buying the 1.0 soft version.


Speedplay- the reason for considering a move to approx 1.0 sponge is a total style switch.

1) Instead of only returning serves short, 1.0 allows either strong sidespin, or an aggressive flip. Fast flips of heavy underspin serves is such a blast People don't realise that the more underspin they put on, the easier it is to do. I've never been able to flip in a match before. It was a standout weakness.

2) Instead of semi-passively blocking with frictionless (which produces great results, but is hard to do against fast balls and it's hard to control the game), I can now throw in aggressive topspins with the pips. These usually arrive as mild-moderate underspin, depending on the on-coming ball. But they look like top spin.

3) Pushing is better. Instead of only being able to push back underspin as top spin- now there is some variety. Sometimes you return light underspin, somtimes nospin or topspin. It depends on how strong the incoming spin is, how hard you dig the ball into the soft pips, and when during the ball's flight path you strike it. Lots of opportunity here for stronger deception. Before they poped up the ball much higher, but I had to rely on opponent forgetfulness.

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Ok, didn't realise that. Yes gluing another sponge on is not a bad idea... you might not be able to get them apart again though

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

HI not sure what I can ad but as the guy loaning the Guillotine to Shoebox and Alex, I guess I agree with Sb comments but I also think that all rubber especially Lp do 2 of the 3 things well, the three things are hitting over the table, blocking over or very near the table and Chopping off the table. I find Guillotine does chopping very well ( but you have to practise ) and hitting over table unbelievably well, but is not so good at blocking. Blocking with it requires backing off the stroke on impact or it is too fast. It side chops well and you can return a serve very aggressively if you are brave.

I found P1 good at blocking and chopping but hitting it was hard.

I just tried 955 care of Alex and strangely it did do all 3 OK but none great. nice control but not aggressive enough for me. As I used to be a Medium pips over the table hitter and loop with FH my style is aggressive and I really try to finish the rally too soon but I am working on this , My coach count each return in a match aim for 30. So I am working on this from now till I go to Aussie Vets in 3 weeks.

Gregg

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Victas Koji Matsushita Offensive Blade
Xiom Vega DEF Max Red
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Cool you tried the 955!

Was it the 0.6mm or 1.0mm.. I can't remember?

The blade could make a difference, I have also tried it on a few faster blades, and i didn't get the control that I did on my Energy wood...

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Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Greggy,

I didn't mind the Guillotine for blocking as I am tend to puch block or counter "loop" anyway. The forward topspin action seems to work nicely.

My big problem is chopping 3m or closer to the table. I tried again today but had great trouble keeping the ball short enough. P1-r .5 is great at this distance, I could keep chopping easily- sometimes it even felt too slow.

Do you have any tips for contolling the speed?

Perhaps I am chopping the ball badly? I chop downwards onto the back of the ball with a short stoke (b/h) and during the end of the stroke I tend to tilt the top of the bat slightly forwards to give forward direction/motion. Maybe my action is too slow, and the ball is sinking into the sponge too much- so it rebounds faster? I tried chopping faster/harder but no success.

Occasionally I managed a short/slow chop and perfect bat angle that sends the ball very fast onto the table, but this seems very difficult to do, and is not a classic fast chop stroke.

In short- a fast loop seems to always sink into the sponge and rebound faster than I want it too....?

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I think you should try to chop softer... this bounchy LP needs much less forwards action from you. So a softer and more vertical strokes should do the trick....

If you still find yourself chopping too hard, try chopping more sideways (across) which will reduce your forwards momentum, and actually produce a more dangerous ball too...

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

I agree with haggsiv, later later softer softer, but you need a long action starting above your ear and finishing at you hip. I found as I got tried and did not lift the blade high the returns were crap. but need a faster action as the ball travels faster towards you. You need to be far back enough to get the ball at no lower than waist height or a bit higher, think of cutting off mid flight not as it is dropping, as the ball is dropping is easier but will not be as choppy.

Greggy

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Victas Koji Matsushita Offensive Blade
Xiom Vega DEF Max Red
TSP P-R1 1mm-1.3mm Black

Thanks, the tips are helping.

I've had two more practice sessions and decided that the missing factor was just skill. It's easy with the slow P1-r .5 There is so much room for error that most cr@p returns still make it onto the table- and with varied spin (ie due to inconsistant technique rather than clever design).

I'm going to buy the Guillotine- it will force me to learn better strokes just to get the ball back. Without a coach it is easy to be pleased when half baked technique still wins points.

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