OOAK Table Tennis Forum

There's a group of 4 players in my division (2 teams of 2) that were ex indoor tennis players who switched to table tennis about a decade ago. I think they are all uncoached but very experienced and they all seem to have unusual strokes that are like a long flick and they are adept at doing these long lazy flicks whether they recieve a topspin or a backspin, whether it is short or long. I find them very frustrating to play against and I have lost now against all of them, although twice by only a narrow margin. The unusualness of their hits seem to make me choke up and if I try and chisel, they chisel back better than me and I feel inhibited from being offensive as I feel a lot more uncertain about what sort of spin is on the ball. I feel that I have a better attacking forehand than them and when I did play it, I often won the point, but the immense uncertainty I felt stopped me from being so offensive. Serves which baffle other players seemed no great problem for them and neither did my pips bother them much either, although towards the end I found that a pretty flat pips serve seemed to unravel them. One of them has pips on the BH and plays a bit differently. My feeling is that I just have to be more offensive from the start and even though I might lose the first set or two, getting the hang of their spin may make me win the game in the final sets. Any thoughts or tips from others who have faced uncoached but experienced and sort of "natural" ex tennis players with tennis type strokes?

_________________
Blade: Andro Kinetic Supreme Zylon/Kiso Hinoki OFF-
FH: Hexer HD 1.7 mm sponge
BH: CTT National Pogo OX
Style: FH counterhitter, BH disruptor

these kind of players tend to have weaker footwork, so looping to corners tends to be very effective, plus use a variety of short serves and pushes with heavy backspin...

_________________
Blade: Xiom Fuga
FH: Juic 999 Turbo MAX
BH: Xiom Omega IV Elite MAX
aznfluteboy's blog
my youtube channel

Although I've had very little experience against these types of players, I suspect they're not doing anything unusual, except their tennis-style stroke play. I think it really comes back to watching the stroke and not allowing the unusual stroke to put you off. There are only so many ways a ball can be struck (topspin, backspin, side spin, no spin and variations of top/back/no side spin).

I'd imagine that because they're use to playing strokes with a tennis flair, this is putting you off (I suspect it might also be their weakness, because it's not often that a tennis player's strokes are compatible with TT strokes. I think if there's any real pay off from playing tennis (or any ball sport) is developing good ball control or feel)).

I would ignore their style just as you would have to ignore any player's idiosyncratic style. Try and break their strokes down by seeing what they are (as mentioned above) and I'm sure you'll be less bamboozled. Of course, it's imperative that you use your tactics to gain the advantage, but that goes for any opponent.

Having said all that, next time we have a training session you can give me an idea of how they play and maybe we can dispel any notion that their style is something you can't handle.

_________________

Weapon 1: Andro Kinetic Supreme Hinoki/Zylon OFF-; Andro Hexer HDs (FH 2.1/BH 1.9)
Weapon 2: Ross Leidy 'Smokey'; Friendship 729-5s
Club1: Daylesford - since 2010
Club2: Ballarat - since 2011
Blog: A Naked Bear

Thinking about it some more, they don't seem to ever do a "push" in response to backspin, but they have played so long and had to overcome backspin in a natural way for them that they naturally overcome the backspin with a little forehand flick type motion, sending back a largely no spin ball. I had just drilled in a series of moves to defeat a classic basic inverted player (who responds with a push with a backspin serve) and I was totally thrown off by them not doing as I expected. To describe their style you could also say they are very experienced and very good recreational players. They take pride in saying they don't take it seriously and go along for some fun as a group and have slowly worked themselves over the years from C grade into A3/4. On reflection I think most of their shots are no-spin shots so they also don't have anything to worry about with my pips.

So it seems I have to drill against no-spin balls. Might have to bring the robot out and drill first and then if you can try to play against me like a recreational player, Oskar, I might gain some skills to defeat them next time!

_________________
Blade: Andro Kinetic Supreme Zylon/Kiso Hinoki OFF-
FH: Hexer HD 1.7 mm sponge
BH: CTT National Pogo OX
Style: FH counterhitter, BH disruptor

Aah, no spin against pips!

I suppose when I read your post it reminded me of a guy on this forum who had posted some videos of himself to have his TT style analysed. He had come from a tennis background and it was revealed that some of his tennis strokes were counter-productive to him developing solid TT strokes, i.e. his forehand tended to swipe across his body instead of traveling up towards his head.

You mention a flick-type stroke that they're doing to convert backspin to topspin. Well, I reckon you should just take advantage of a return like that and give it your strong forehand drive/loop. Of course, it's tough giving advice when I don't really know the sorts of strokes they're doing, but I'm confident it won't be anything too tough.

_________________

Weapon 1: Andro Kinetic Supreme Hinoki/Zylon OFF-; Andro Hexer HDs (FH 2.1/BH 1.9)
Weapon 2: Ross Leidy 'Smokey'; Friendship 729-5s
Club1: Daylesford - since 2010
Club2: Ballarat - since 2011
Blog: A Naked Bear

The tennis player in my club has excellent footwork. He's a fisher/lobber who uses a tennis-like flat stroke to attack balls he has no business going after.. and they usually land for him. This particular player really favors his FH and loves to step around, so the key to beating him (which I can do less than half the time) is to catch him out of position and move him around more than even he is capable of.

_________________
BBC CarboFlex DURO, Donic Acuda S1 Turbo, KTL Stranger Attack 1.2mm

If, and I say if, these ex tennis players use rubber that is in any way shape or form sensitive, even a little bit, to spin, I would just put as much spin as I could on the ball. It doesn't have to be top spin or back spin. It just has to be spin. One of the things that ex tennis players I have played against have trouble with is spin.

What is one of the major differences between tennis & table tennis? The role of spin in the game. Sure in tennis they have to use a bit of top spin to keep their ground stokes in, and there is a place for a top spin lob. Some do play a respectable slice to "chip and charge" but here the effect is that the tennis ball shoots through rather than holds up like table tennis. Just use heaps of spin.

Also if they were of a reasonable standard they will be expecting the ball to come on to them, either flat or a little bit of top spin. So don't do that. As someone else said, push or even chop so they don't get the ball coming on to them.

_________________
Retriever (sometimes golden, but often leaden)

I have a feeling their bats are old and don't have much grip; I inspected one where the rubber looked to be at least 5 years old and totally worn out. So I probably imagine theres more in their strokes than there is and it's almost like a semi grippy antispin. Perhaps one way to defeat them is to convince them that they MUST get new rubbers! I think we've convinced one...

_________________
Blade: Andro Kinetic Supreme Zylon/Kiso Hinoki OFF-
FH: Hexer HD 1.7 mm sponge
BH: CTT National Pogo OX
Style: FH counterhitter, BH disruptor

Now there's a strategy I never thought to employ. Got to add it to the manual! I think I'll include it between asking my opponent to either use linseed oil or sandpaper on their rubbers and whether they've ever considered a badminton racket ("Much better flight!").

_________________

Weapon 1: Andro Kinetic Supreme Hinoki/Zylon OFF-; Andro Hexer HDs (FH 2.1/BH 1.9)
Weapon 2: Ross Leidy 'Smokey'; Friendship 729-5s
Club1: Daylesford - since 2010
Club2: Ballarat - since 2011
Blog: A Naked Bear

A friend and teamy of mine is a tennis player and it is very apparent in his strokes. He has trouble using his wrist in the stroke. He has actually developed quite a spinny loop now because he knew that his flat strokes were a problem for him. His loop is quite spinny and can be awkward to play, but gees it looks awkward as he executes it too The rest of his game is still "tennis-oriented" though. His attacks are very effective though, especially off his BH. He is tall, which helps him reach balls better. I would agree with Nathanso that these players don't tend to handle a very spinny ball well. If they have worn rubbers try learning to sidespin loop the ball more on your strokes. They'll either completely miss, or will catch their bat edge a lot.

We also used to have a guy who was a very high level tennis player play a couple of years ago who played with SP on both sides. His game was very awkward. It took me a few times playing him before I worked out how to make his SP act like I wanted it to. Using the pips in the right way would make his balls fly or dive into the net.

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red National Pogo Ox
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs Ox
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 BH Red Dornenglanz Ox
Table tennis directory / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

Going to have to disagree... footwork in tennis >>>>>>>>> footwork in table tennis... by a long shot. You can play TT (albeit badly) without footwork, you can't play a second of tennis without footwork.

In my experience ex-tennis players have very strong forehand loops, but if they used to play tennis with a two-handed backhand, their TT backhand will be more awkward/slow. I would try more shallow net shots and hit to their body/avoid forehand. That being said if these guys have been playing TT for 10 years they are not your average tennis player who played TT in the basement once or twice sort of players.

When you give someone a topspin deep and they "kill" the spin, the ball will mostly come back long. Problem is, that ball does not "kick" and bounce towards you deeper. It will bounce and NOT come at you. If you are expecting a topspin that kicks, you will be too deep to make a quality shot or have to greatly slow down your shot. I would recommend that when your tennis player makes one of these shots, you start to move forward after he/she hits it. You will be in a better position to make a sucessful attack and will be able to read the spin better. As suggested earlier, try making some of your attacks to his/her BH corner.

Another thing you can do is make a half solid contact, half grazing contact with a slight lifting stroke. Use your whole body. Be in Position. Go for heavy spin and depth near the endline. Do NOT use max power, simply use half power or a little moar. That is all the power you need. Trying for max power on that ball will get you in trouble spraying it everywhere. Guarentee that you will trouble many opponets with that shot that lands deep with heavy spin, even if it is not a very fast shot. It is difficult to block and difficult to time a counter-attack.

Another suggestion is to attack with BH some moar. BH backswing is usually short and it is easy to confuse opponet on direction of shot. It is also a quick shot and there is little racket preparation. Do your BH and step around to use your FH. Get used to doing this and you will be able to finish moar points.

_________________
FC Bayern in the driver's seat on its way to rule Bundesliga and Europe.

BTY M. Maze Tibhar Aurus
Primorac Carbon Aurus/755 OX LP (LP Scout bat)
Nexy Calix THIN OFF with Tibhar Aurus and Dawei XP 2008 (Test Bat)

Shitloads of Tibhar and Nexy Jerseys and Shorts and Shoes!

President, Korea Foreign TTC
http://www.facebook.com/koreaforeignttc

The weakness with all Ex tennis players is on the forehand side.. If you can exploit that while being pumped with light or no spin backhands is another story

_________________
TG3 / 802

One of my best students is a tennis hotshot.
His weakness was trying to loop. He has this concave stroke just like in tennis. I finally put 802-40 on and he is dangerous on the forhand with that.
His strong point, he is so quick to step around and use his forhand. I wish all my students had his footwork.