OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Tried the Armstrong Attack 3M, 1.2 mm red, bright red sponge, 40 hardness Alex and Luna sent me.

Pips are smaller than 8228A, slightly shorter and much softer. Trapezoidal in shape, sharper an d rubber looked and smelled very fresh an high quality. Mounted on forehand of custom carbon/Kevlar penhold blade. Sponge felt springy and had a lot of pop to it, almost as if under tension.

Not sure what to expect, started hitting noticed that taking the ball early was the thing to do. Now some of what Kees said about "pushing in" in traditional penhold play made sense, I could take the ball right off the bounce and return long or short.

Forehand took a little more adjustment, better to go "rectilinearly" as Kees says straight forward rather than a more diagonal stroke. More sensitive to bat angle,but once you get it right, the ball goes back very quick. Hitting high balls is no problem, the medium height balls were what took adjustment. Once I started taking the balls quicker off the bounce I could create all sorts of angles.

The soft pips allowed me to create reasonable spin on serves and the thin sponge meant I could serve short, I could also drop the ball short on serve return if I wanted to.

Very interesting rubber, rewards the traditional Chinese pen hold game. Did not seem terribly deceptive on blocks compared to harder or longer pips, so players will need to be active in their play. Good control though, so it's more a question of out angling and outlasting your opponent.

I enjoyed playing with the Attack 3M, I also have a sheet of Attack 8M and Legend 105, so I plan to try those later this week.

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-- Andrew

Spintech All Around Penhold blade
Spinlord Keiler II 1.5 black
Nittaku FastArc G1 red

729 all around blade
Tibhar Grass D-Tec S Red
Nittaku FastArc G1 black

Thanks a lot for sharing your views on this rubber agooding2! Armstrong is a bit of a mystery to many, so it's great to read some first-hand experience!

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

One other question on this rubber... you got this rubber in 1.2mm, whereas your preferred size was no doubt a little thicker than that. How do you think the thinner 1.2mm affected the performance, and what do you think it would be better or worse with a thicker sponge?

Thanks a lot!

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

I actually think that this rubber might be very interesting in OX as right now there isn't much "trickiness" to it. I had seen another review that said that this rubber was good In OX.

The Attack 3 is a good blocking and hitting off the bounce rubber, so I'm not sure if you'd gain much more with thicker sponge, though maybe going to 1.5 would be a good idea for more forehand attack possibilities.

_________________
-- Andrew

Spintech All Around Penhold blade
Spinlord Keiler II 1.5 black
Nittaku FastArc G1 red

729 all around blade
Tibhar Grass D-Tec S Red
Nittaku FastArc G1 black

Thank you!

Yes i read the same about the rubber in OX...no doubt it would make it trickier

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Played with this a little more and I'm enjoying the control I get on serve return and blocks. I can do double bounce returns on a regular basis with the 1.2 sponge. I'm not missing the extra speed of a thicker sponge either.

Very interesting rubber, the Attack 8 I liked initially but now feels a bit hard. Would like to try that with thicker (1.5) and softer (40 hardness) sponge, maybe the largest size pips as well.

_________________
-- Andrew

Spintech All Around Penhold blade
Spinlord Keiler II 1.5 black
Nittaku FastArc G1 red

729 all around blade
Tibhar Grass D-Tec S Red
Nittaku FastArc G1 black

Still playing with this rubber after a summer break. Elbow problems have meant I've been focusing on a more traditional Chinese game, no Rpb, everything quick off the bounce, varying blocks short and long and to sides and only hitting sitters with the forehand. I see the advantage of the thin sponge for control as I can always hit the ball harder.

Very nice, may have to try in black for a single sided set up as my blades have a red face and it would save weight so less stress on my elbow. Could also try red OX to see the difference.

I comparison I feel I have far less control with the harder Attack 8 or the thicker and softer Legend 105. For this kind of game, thin and direct is the way to go for better feel of the ball.

_________________
-- Andrew

Spintech All Around Penhold blade
Spinlord Keiler II 1.5 black
Nittaku FastArc G1 red

729 all around blade
Tibhar Grass D-Tec S Red
Nittaku FastArc G1 black

I played with attack 3M 1,0mm and 1,5 mm for some time. I still have them both here somewhere.

I think it's one of the best medium pimples. Pips are quite soft. 3M is also good for defensive play although it is not very spin sensitive. It's also not very fast

Armstrong makes interresting rubbers (3M, attack anti)

My EJ feeling is coming up again reading this

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brokkie

Anyone have a used sheet of the Armstrong Attack 3M they aren't using in decent shape that they would sell?

Otherwise, who sells it?

I'm trying to find a rubber capable of playing 0X or thin sponge for chopping, pushing, and smacking, and I would like it to have some reversal when used to block, and just enough spin to counterhit topspin balls if possible. I'm basically looking for something between how a long pip hits vs a short pip. I need to be using my pips to hit more and chop less, and it occurs to me that I might do better if my spins were more controllable by me that my long pips and therefore less predictable for my opponents.

The only rubber I've tried called a mid pips was 755. It was ok, but I didn't find any advantage with it.

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--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT 1684 left, Lost it all by playing sick and hurt.
No legs left, no more backing up, just smash it!
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Spinlord Waran Short Pips
BH: Joola Badman Reloaded 0X

FS 755 is a classic LP! Maybe you used 755-2 (which is tiotally different than 755)? It is typically also listed as a LP but it really is more like a MP.
If you want to smack and block you are probably better off with a thin sponge espcecially when going the MP route. When blocking with MP you will not have any reversal though, the balls are essentially empty and show the typical MP sink action which does force a lot of people to hit in the net.

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Equipment:
OSP Ultimate, FH: Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard 2.1, BH: Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5
YouTube channel: "AntiRules"

Ok, I looked. I have both a 755 and 755-2. The pips on the 755 are taller with smooth tops and the pips on the 755-2 are a bit shorter with a crosshatch pattern on top. Both have .8 mm sponges.

I'm surprised though that you say the MP don't have any reversal. I wouldn't expect as much reversal as a lower friction rubber, but would expect there would be some, and the less sponge, the more reversal. When i look at the table tennis database for any of the rubbers we are talking about here, ALL of them have a number in the reversal column. Ok, that number is not as high as my DTec.S or my ScrewOne, but there is a number of 4 or 5 in most cases, which says to me that people are saying they do reverse spin on blocks to some degree.

BTW, I really hate the term reversal, because as I see it, its really a percentage of spin continuation, where the lower the friction, and ability to create spin, at the same time means you are less affected by incoming spin and more continuation, at least while the ball is hitting the tops of the pips. The effect of lower friction on a block is that if I block a heavy topspin ball, a little less heavy underspin ball goes back, and that's the effect I'm looking for.

Maybe I will put each on a blade and compare them by blocking vs my robot. Have you ever tried that with the Armstrong 3M or the Dr Neubauer Diamant? I see the table tennis database also shows them as doing reversal.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT 1684 left, Lost it all by playing sick and hurt.
No legs left, no more backing up, just smash it!
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Spinlord Waran Short Pips
BH: Joola Badman Reloaded 0X

When you talk about spin reversal of legal rubbers it is really only LP which do this on chopping the ball. The ability to reverse the spin comes from bending the pips. The longer the pips and the easier they bend the more reversal you will get. For example when you chop a topspin ball you will generate heavy underspin. This is the reason why defenders like to rely on LP. When you talk about a blocking game at the table it is difficult to get any spin reversal (again with legal rubbers!) except when you chop block with LP typically without sponge (ox). However, this is difficult as the blade angle and positioning has to be right and if you get to a very high level loops will simply be too fast to chop block them. This leaves a passive block or counter stroke as your only option which, even if carried out with long pips, will not generate any spin reversal, but essentially create an "empty" (no-spin) ball. MP are generally designed to block and counter at the table also creating a no-spin ball which leads to the celebrated sink action which, depending on type of rubber, will be more or less pronounced. Some MP (e.g. Pimplemini, Millitall 2, Peacekeeper) may give you some reversal on chopping if they have relatively soft and thin pips but this will be less than any LP. Some people will attribute the mistakes (hitting in the net) made on MP blocks or counters (due to the sink) to spin reversal but you are simply getting a no-spin ball.
Obviously, all of the above is not true anymore when we are talking about illegal frictionless rubbers as they will generate heave spin reversal on passive blocks. You can also get this by using a frictionless Anti like the Dr. Neubauer Antis as for example ABS which I am currently trying out.

I have tested quite a few MP (as well as SP) and found that the sinking action was the best with Diamant 1.2 on a carbon blade with harder touch. Very disturbing in that department is also the 8228A-FC 1.5 but it is quite fast and not easy to control. I have not personally tried the Armstrong 3M but a friend of mine who plays a similar game on his backhand as I used to do has tested it. He stated that it is easy to control and block with but the sinking effect was rather minimal. We typically come to the same conclusion when testing the same rubber so I personally believe his statement on the 3M.

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Equipment:
OSP Ultimate, FH: Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard 2.1, BH: Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5
YouTube channel: "AntiRules"

Ok, I'm only talking about legal pips, as I don't own or want any illegal ones. Everyone I play already hates my pips, so no need to make that worse with illegal rubber.

Maybe my definition of spin reversal is wrong. I am certainly no authority on the subject. I have noticed that my blocks don't backspin well if I have sponge under my pips (thicker sponge = worse), or very spinny pips (which block more like inverted). With a thick sponge and spinny pips, i would expect not to get much if any backspin from blocking a topspin ball. I am looking for that backspin from blocking a topspin ball.

I do understand what you mean about the heavy chop with long pips. If i get the blade under the ball just right and really zing it, it gets tremendous underspin, basically because I'm adding spin to the already heavy topspin, and that works even better with a thin sponge.

It sounds like the best solution for me is going to be finding an 0X pips that will produce backspin blocks and is still able to chop or counterhit.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT 1684 left, Lost it all by playing sick and hurt.
No legs left, no more backing up, just smash it!
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Spinlord Waran Short Pips
BH: Joola Badman Reloaded 0X

Sorry, if I did not make myself clear. You will not produce any backspin with LP (or any pip for that matter) on a passive block as these balls will come back with more or less no spin but strong sink action which will force players to hit the next ball into the net. I guess this is why some players believe there was backspin on the block. If you want to create "real" backspin on a block with LP you will have to apply the so-called "chop block" technique, which is typically done with ox LP. Look in the video section here in the forum for vids of members Mr. Variatio and Pascal Troeger, two German players that apply the chop block at the table very well.
MP are made for block and counter producing empty (spinless) balls with a strong sinking action but you want to play very aggresive and active with MP because you will get killed if you play passively as you cannot generate any (or much) spin yourself.
According to my friend, the AA 3M is on less deceptive spectrum of the MP. If you actually intend to chop with a MP on occasion you may want to think about something with soft and thin pips that can bend like Pimplemini or Peacekeeper which are on the slower side. Diamant is imho the best MP for sink on block and counter as well as hitting through spin but should be used aggresively to take advantage of its strengths.

_________________
Equipment:
OSP Ultimate, FH: Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard 2.1, BH: Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5
YouTube channel: "AntiRules"

by the way how is your raquet when hitting flat , is the intensity flexy due to its 5mm or solid? i m thinking about using it with SP , i have had a titanium 5.4 but it was too flexy