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I'm not arguing with the percentage speculation or the estimations, but I would like to stress that even my concept of what a rating means is constantly undergoing change due to the people I'm coming into contact with lately.

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USATT rating - 1971

I agreed 100% with your 1950 and 1800 anyway. I just have a real hard time believing 1600 or less others have mentioned especially for the pips player.

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TG3 / 802

I would have the same impression if I looked at their form rather than looking really closely. The players did not look impressive. But the consistency was there. Especially the long pip player, who had an away from the table game. Nothing to write home about, but he at least had it. And a decent FH smash given the opportunity.

With the looper, I don't know too many people U1800 that can loop consistently against a pip player. Now his fh loop wasn't good, except for the occasional loops down the line, which were great, and his smash was absolutely terrible. But his BH was consistent. And his serves were simple enough to be effective. Though I must say the LP player had terrible serve return overall.

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USATT rating - 1971

yep complete guess,
USA Table tennis has 42 States that have less than 10 Table Tennis clubs, some have 0 clubs, then its high levels in the East and West Coasts and Texas, Florida, so comparing a fairly strong organised Table Tennis area of Victoria with the USA or Ayers rock means not much, but against California with the high level of ex-pat Chinese maybe the opposite

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This thread rocks. The blocker in the vid plays a very similar game to this forum's resident legend who pushes and blocks. He's clearly well over 1700 US, and I would say would give lots of players on this forum absolute fits, he takes a lot of pace off the ball, and angles very well on lots of his blocks. The rest of his game isn't much, his serves are all pretty identical. It is difficult to rate anyone of this style without seeing him play someone with a stronger attack.

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Using that formula, would Simon Gerada Vic 2238 be USATT 4476?

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Coach Li: Kill the game against long pimps! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAHNaiIhnWM

Yeah, the trouble with saying VIC1000 is US2000 is that you get an awful bottle-neck at some stage where players of a fairly wide range have to be squeezed into a 100 points or so. I have seen about 5 clips of US2000 ish players. The players in one of those clips would be comparable to the players at the start of this thread whilst the rest of the US 2000 were considerably stronger. Most of the US 2000 ish players I have seen have reasonably sophisticated serve/receive, an ok opening attack and okish footwork - most VIC1000 guys don't have this. My guess is that US 2000 is somewhere around VIC 1200-1300 but of course it's tricky.

No not at all, because I was calculating where the top 15.88% of the population starts (15.88% of US players are over 2000).

Carbonmans theory of where sophisticated serves start could easily be a cultural thing, a population separated speaks another language so just because one doesn't on average use a certain type of serve doesn't mean they haven't made up for it in other areas. Then again I didn't even know a pendulum serve existed until 12 months ago, no one I had played against used one so I just didn't know. Just using a basic version of it now has improved my 3rd ball attack but I do get good variation on it where most people my level don't. Without that serve it would probably knock me back 50-100 points at the moment.

There is a real bottle neck around Vic 1050, When I was playing at that level a few months ago playing someone on 1020 was a straight 3 win with the points like 11-4 and then playing someone on 1060 could be a lost match in 4 and that difference was repeatable and consistant, but the difference from 1060 to 1400 wasn't much at all (less than the difference between 1060 and 1020). I've also noticed that the players who were around 1040 this year who haven't improved are all on 960 or less now and there are a lot of regular and consistant tournament players that have done that on the list over the last 12 months. I can only guess that the overall standard has gone up in that area above 1000 in the last year. So the whole thing is in flux and a certain rating comparison to the US system that works today might not in a years time. Maybe I'll see where that 15.88% thing is sometime later on.

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TG3 / 802

It is a cultural thing and the culture is table tennis! The more you improve the more important serve, receive and short-game become. The guys at the start of this thread had zero short-game and virtually every serve they did was long. If they played most of the US2000 players I have seen they would really struggle because their long serves and long passive returns would be so easily attacked.

I think the point that foam is trying to make is that at any level you'll get some players with great serves, and some with average serves. The ones with average serves are probably great in other parts of the game, or they would not be playing at that level.

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Yes that is what I was trying to put across , you don't need to serve short if you are a bullet proof wall for example

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TG3 / 802

The thing is that it is the actual level which is trying to be determined here. Also, I didn't stress great serves but rather a degree of sophistication in serve (and receive) - variation in spin and length, a lack of telegraphing, etc. The guys in the clip at the start of this thread were exceptionally loose with their serves (and receives!) and this betrayed their standard - IMO they would begin a rally at a serious disadvantage against most of the US2000 players I have seen.

Of course, some players are very strong in certain areas and this has to be taken into account when assessing standard but even so it is hard to get too far if you always serve long (unsophisticatedly so) and receive passively.

Yes agreed!

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People referring to the attacker as a looper makes me laugh. He is NOT a looper. His footwork is terrible. He hits forhands with feet crossed or right foot forwards. He has no power. He has no serve. No opening loop to take offence. No over the table game. He blocks or pushes balls that most 2000 players would kill. The list could go on.
Maybe all the 2000 players I have met in NY, California, Washington, Portland, Alaska, are exceptional players with low ratings or maybe they are all sandbaggers?
Put the "looper" against Borko the blade maker. I dont think he would get 4 points in a serious match. Borko is a coach at the Dan Diago club in Calif. He and I went 2 games to 2 about 4 years ago before I went to China. He was about 1900+ then.
I also understand guys like the blocker make people look bad. However, he did not dominate the "looper" and the "looper has enough faults to keep a coach busy for 10 years. The blocker also gave away way too many serves. I never see a 2000 player make so many serve errors. Especially when he has no good "LEGAL" serves. No USATT 2000 level player would tolorate those serves. Since we are talking USATT, take away the serving out of his hand and he is toast. At least the blocker has a good smash and power when he gets a high ball. (No loop, but good smash)

The dude with LP, let's say his illegal serves are allowed like any amature tourney here in Korea, he we would be strong div 4 or middle of the road div 3 in my city. The 2x inverted fellah would be div 4. I have seen much better allround attacking 2x players than him in div 4 Uijeongbu city, but he is not div 5 or "Hope" division.

LP dude can hold the table and control the angles somewhat. He keeps it on the table and that would get him by a LOT of USATT 1700 leel players.

LP dude is 1800 minimum, if he can get away with serving like that in USA, which is unlikely, but let's just say he can and that is where he would be.

2X inverted dude is much trickier to clasify by USATT rating. His game look like a smart div 4 city player, but you really don't get to see if he can open with spin or make heavy loops or make power loops. He is simply sticking to a control light topspin game. Who knows what other shots are in his arsenal? I would think that if he has them, he would be tempted to break them out to finish points when hte chance arises, but I wouldn't be able to give a ballpark on this fellah to save my life after watching just that clip. He looked like a 1700 dude playing it way too safe, but no way to really tell until I see him in action some more vs other styles.

Classifying the LP dude is a lot easier as you get to see more of his tactics at work and how well they work vs the inverted shots.

BTW, the police commander of the Police who stand guard outside the miltary camps in my city registered me and KFTTC member Neil in a local Seoul tourney, classifying me at div 4. I play div 3 Seoul city when I go to Korea TT gym, and div 4 at national level tourneys. Our club ace is 2300 and palys div 3 national level and makes the finals of those tourneys a lot. I will go into this tourney very under-rated or clasified.

Why say all that? You never know. I played vs the gent who regisitered me and he is div 4 for this tourney, I won vs him 3-0, then 3-2 after being down 6-10 in 2nd match, then 2-0. I might be not so under-rated after all for next weekend's tourney. Might be the same for these two dudes in the vid.

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