OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
Live Table Tennis Videos Table Tennis News Live OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 21 Nov 2017, 02:58


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: 06 Jun 2012, 01:27 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 19:52
Posts: 730
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Blade: TT Piet Homemade 6 ply
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0x
hookshot wrote:
Which side are you using for backhand chop? I can chop all day with anti or pips on the backside on backhand.
I usually do not chop except to let students learn to hit chops.


Are you using the grip shown above when you chop with the back side rubber? I can't seem to get the stroke right to do it because the blade angle in my hand is a bit more open because of my thumb being behind the blade. I can chop with it, but not as reliably (to be expected, needs more practice), and also they have a much higher arc and bounce than my shakehands BH chop with the same rubber and blade. I seem to need to scoop the ball later in order to control it, but that means I need to lift it more to get over the net.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT xxxx Lost it all by playing before recovered.
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0X Long Pips


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: 07 Jun 2012, 13:42 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 19:52
Posts: 730
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Blade: TT Piet Homemade 6 ply
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0x
Well, I tried it a few more days, but the blade angle difference chopping causes a lot of trouble, so I have to give it up.

I did learn a few things.

1. When your thumb is up on the blade it changes your blade angle.

2. Without the thumb at the top of the handle, it means you only have 3 fingers left to hold onto it with, meaning each of them needs to hold on better. If the handle is thick, you can't get your fingers around it enough to get a good grip. If the handle is long enough, your palm will help steady it. If its both thick and short, or slippery, its not good.

I will still work at using the BH by switching grips to "attack". The biggest problem is realizing that I need to do it, then getting it done in time to make the shot correctly. Given how good the BH drive and loop were, its still a worthy cause, IMO, because if I get it to work it allows me to keep my defensive ability and gives my the option of an inverted attack from that side.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT xxxx Lost it all by playing before recovered.
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0X Long Pips


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2012, 15:42 
Offline
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2007, 12:57
Posts: 5417
Location: USA
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 122 times
Why do you want to chop with Seemiller grip? I either attack, block, banana flip or push. I only use chop in an emergency if someone actually moves me off the table.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2012, 20:44 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 19:52
Posts: 730
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Blade: TT Piet Homemade 6 ply
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0x
Your question and point are entirely valid. I can tell from trying it that the grip is oriented to offensive + blocking by design.

The problem is that I am a chopper by nature, and until a year ago, I couldn't hit a topspin ball (not even a FH smash) because I had always just chopped when I was a kid and nobody ever spent time teaching me to play that I recall. I kinda like chopping, and do it in the middle of rallies to end them because I don't have the stamina to waste the energy for 5 smashes to win one point, because if I do, after about 2 or 3 long matches, I'm exhausted, which becomes a problem if I play a tournament.

Anyway, I enjoy chopping...

Thanks for the time and insight. I do still think I can use it to attack here and there, but I just need to get used to doing it.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT xxxx Lost it all by playing before recovered.
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0X Long Pips


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2012, 18:13 
Offline
Rotatus Maximus
Rotatus Maximus
User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2007, 21:37
Posts: 1148
Location: The Land Down Under
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 4 times
Hmmm, am I partly responsible? (I encouraged you early on in this thread.)

Trying to chop with Seemiller Grip, would be like trying to box with your best hand tied behind your back. DON'T DO IT!

I personally think Hookshot's modifed Seemiller grip is awesome for SURPRISE attacks sprund by a shakehand OX pip player. (If using grippy sponge pips, attack with these instead.)

Chop on both sides with shakehand,
Push/roll/flip on both sides with shakehand,
f/h loop with shakehand,
b/h pip block/chopblock with shakehand,
Now, the lazy/lose/higher ball comes to your b/h, move your thumb & Seemiller-loop the pants off it, keeping this grip for a couple of secs so you can re-block a quick block if there is one, or punish a weak block to your b/h.

Seriously, if you're a chopper, don't cripple your style & skills by changing full time to a Seemiller grip. IMHO it's a close-to-the-table-only grip that trades off some f/h power & spin, for better blocking, and is terrible for chopping (no feel, & your wrist is too locked to chop different spin/speeds fluently.)

_________________
Custom Re-Impact OFF
Hexer HD 1.9
Hexer Pips 1.9

Member of Anastasia's Fan Club


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2012, 20:13 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 19:52
Posts: 730
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Blade: TT Piet Homemade 6 ply
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0x
Yes, your analysis is spot on. I'm a chopper by nature, and Seemiller grip is not as good for pushing/chopping as shakehands.

I haven't had the guts to try it against anyone really good, yet, but have used the "move the thumb behind and hit" against a lower level opponent for a slower ball on the BH side a few times. One's reaction was to say "What in the heck was that?" when it made the CRACKKK and ZINGGGG sounds and whizzed by him down the line on his BH side.

For now, my emphasis on BH is to get my pips smack/smash shot harder and faster because its "there for the taking" if I just get it practiced, but yes, I just love the CRACKKK and ZINGGGG sounds and the looks on peoples faces when I use my FH rubber when they expected pips, so hopefully as time goes by I'll use it more and it will get more reliable.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT xxxx Lost it all by playing before recovered.
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0X Long Pips


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2012, 14:53 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 19:52
Posts: 730
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Blade: TT Piet Homemade 6 ply
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0x
Round and round she goes. Sometimes you go around, and come right back to where you were.....

After a demoralizing defeat to a 10 yr old at a tournament, where I only hit 1 topspin forehand ball in 3 games (and yes, it won a point), I decided I need to do SOMETHING to play better. The kid spent the 3 games looping at my backhand as hard as he could, as often as he got ANY kind of chance. I'm not a blocker, so all I could do was chop. The first two games were very close, but the third, I tried attacking more, and overall did worse as a result.

So anyway, a coach I've been talking to suggested I talk to a guy that was about 2400 and played "windshield wiper", and as it turns out, he was nice enough to spend 5 or 10 minutes with me discussing how the grip worked and the various versions of it he had seen. I also watched Randy Seemiller playing vs a friend, and taped some video of that as well as some of the 2400 guy playing matches.

Ok, its not optimal for chopping. I watched my tape. My forehand chops are not good against hard hits anyway unless I happen to be 10 ft back, and magically happen to be where the ball is being hit to. Good luck with that, LOL. So, when I do chop on forehand, its out of desperation, and only successful less than 50% of the time at even landing on the table. If I were able to attack instead, and loop hard, I'd have better odds of winning those points.

Backhand chop. I have long pips now and have been chopping since I was age 4 or 5 when I learned to play on a kiddie sized table. I don't even know if anyone taught me. So anyway, I just said the heck with it tonight, and put the paddle in my hand in such a way that the windshield wiper backhand could be aimed correctly to hit vs no spin or topspin balls, and then proceeded using my body, arm and wrist to practice chopping with the backhand side, and practice hitting the forehand topspin, both with the paddle held that way without trying or needing to change grips to hit. After playing for 15 min with a guy that couldn't do forehand or backhand counter warmups to save his soul, someone challenged the table, so I had to either give up or play a match. The guy is probably 1300 level, based on who he can beat vs who he loses to, but anyway, play we did. I surprised myself by winning the 1st game by attacking hard from my forehand with hard loops, and figuring out how to chop and push quite well with the pips backhand, not windshield wiper one. I lost the next game, then won a 2nd, then lost another, and eventually won the 5th 11 - 9. By the 5th game my forehand hit shot was working more like a loop drive, and was quite nasty, and I was able to push better than usual with the pips because of the blade angle to pin him down on his forehand side. My chopping wasn't great, but at least wasn't atrocious compared to most people.

Then I hit with another player (probably 1000 level) who could hit the ball reasonably straight, and again ended up having to play a match. I won 3 - 0, but the amazing thing was that I won the 3rd game 11 - 0, and did it mostly with absolutely viscous forehand loop drive shots. Then I got to practice for 5 or 10 min more with another player that I almost always win against, and like a shark, he smelled blood with me appearing to be crippled, and so he wanted to play a match... LOL, We didn't have time to finish, but I was up 2 - 1, and even used the windshield wiper backhand to hit the ball topspin a few times. The old sad part was that my chopping instincts are too strong and I figured out a way to chop on forehand with it. LOL, but I was TRYING to LEARN TO ATTACK!!!

I guess the robot needs some exercise... On the forehand side I need to learn to make myself attack and learn to decide when a ball is coming to my backhand which rubber to use and how to return it by telling myself what to do, ie, block, hit or smash with inverted, block, chop, push, hit, loop or smash with pips, and then get it to where *I* tell my arm what to do rather than just watching it chop, LOL.

Anyway, I will give the Seemiller type grip another try, but this time I will just use one grip and make my body adjust to do whatever it has to with the paddle, instead of complicating things trying to change grips and change back all the time, which I am just too uncoordinated to do in those infinitesimally small split seconds. I would guess the first few weeks will be the worst, and I'll just need to play people at or under 1300 or 1400 or so till I get to where *I* am able to control how I play, and with luck it will get to where I know what to do based on what the ball coming at me looks like, in time. And if/when I get to where I'm playing well, I'll work my way up again, playing better players, and see if I can get back to where the 1700 level people give me those looks again.

And if within a month, if it just isn't working, I'll tuck my tail between my legs and retreat back to the crappy game I have been playing, all defense, and maybe switch to totally defensive rubber for my forehand, since I so rarely attack anyway, I might just as well be able to push and chop better, and put those loopers into the net more.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT xxxx Lost it all by playing before recovered.
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0X Long Pips


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 30 Oct 2012, 05:45 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 09 Oct 2008, 00:48
Posts: 2040
Location: Lafayette, California
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 73 times
Why not adopt the 3-sided paddle style?

"Half-twiddling" from windshield wiper grip to shakehand grip is a whole lot easier than doing a full twiddle, i.e. a 180* spin of the paddle in your hand. The half-twiddle requires only that you reposition your thumb from the rubber to the wood (i.e. to the thumb's normal SH grip position), or vice-verse. Easy peasy.. "beast of both worlds"! ;)

As a kid I taught myself to play WW style and ended up topping out at around US 1500. So I forced myself to start using SH grip, with particular emphasis on BH LP drive attacks, and I advanced my game considerably in the doing. Yet I still block -- and sometimes serve -- WW style, and I can decide whether I'm going to attack a ball to my BH with either LP via SH, or with inverted using WW grip. That it's confusing to opponents is an added bonus.

A WW BH using inverted rubber is a natural whipping stroke that imparts tremendous spin and is generally considered to be the grip's strong point; its weak points being chops and pushing. Another strength of the WW grip is that it alleviates the transition point lag when moving from from BH to FH.. and while the WW FH inverted stroke isn't as spinny as its SH equivalent, it can still generate plenty of spin.

_________________
BBC Ghost, TSP Spinpips RED 2.1, Dragon Talon OX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 30 Oct 2012, 06:25 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 19:52
Posts: 730
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Blade: TT Piet Homemade 6 ply
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0x
Thanks for the comments/suggestions.

I did try moving the thumb before, and I found I just wasn't coordinated enough to do that at the same time as all the other things I needed to do in that small space of time AFTER DECIDING what to do, and get it all done well enough to make that next shot well, too.

That was the reason for finding some way to grip it that I could just hold it with the one grip and make it work for all the shots. Luckily, I'm double jointed, so I can bend some joints farther than most people, allowing me a bit range of motion without changing grips. It might be that in time the paddle will teach my hand to move the grip a bit this way or that to make different shots well.

After a few hours practicing today, I can now chop on forehand close to as well as I could before, and I'm getting better with the forehand and windshield wiper topspin, too. I've been doing a hop around drill where I hit 2 good shots in a row on the forehand side, then hop over and switch to windshield wiper backhand and do it until I get 2 good shots in a row from it, then hop back to the forehand side. In addition, I'm aiming for this corner, that corner or middle alternately in the drill I'm doing to also try to learn to aim the shots well. Soon I will add using the long pips side to do a backhand chop on the backhand side of the drill, and SOMEDAY add blocks on all 3 sides as well. The robot I'm using now does great loops, but doesn't have things like randomized speeds or randomized wait times or randomized positioning available, so I'll use it to just learn the basic shots.

Once I can do it pretty well, I'll use the other robot set for high speeds and then progressively widen the width of the robot's range and increase the speed adjustment random range and decrease the time between balls, as well. By then I hope to be able to play fairly well, and I'll just keep doing it a few times a day till it becomes natural to control it.

Right now the backhand chop is lousy because of the blade angle and the blocks are non-existent, LOL, but I hope to get there. One of my biggest difficulties is that the paddle keeps moving in my hand and its difficult to tell if I have it positioned correctly or not. And if its not, I get into trouble when I switch from one shot or position to another, especially when I try to chop on backhand. As for backhand pushes, I'll just do those with the long pips. That was working quite well last night.

Yes, and I agree, the 2 way backhand will be confusing to hit into because you will have to notice which rubber is being used to know what to expect back, and I'm hoping that will cause people to avoid that and hit more balls to my forehand, which seems a good bit stronger hitting topspin this way.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT xxxx Lost it all by playing before recovered.
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0X Long Pips


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Nov 2012, 11:52 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 19:52
Posts: 730
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Blade: TT Piet Homemade 6 ply
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0x
A small but possibly important detail I noticed is that I'm doing it more like Hookshot's pic this time, with the thumb on the edge of the wood, not on the back of the blade like Dan does it to push. And if I crouch more, too, I think that's why things are working much better.

But a problem I'm having is that I can't seem to keep my finger and thumb from moving or slipping off the edge when playing. I also had trouble keeping the 0X rubber glued down on the backhand side, so I put a small 1/8" V shaped notch in the wood where each digit needs to be (because both finger and thumb kept going up on the the playing surface of the rubber causing mishits and rubber getting loose), so I can tell where they need to be, but I still can't seem to keep my finger and thumb holding it at the notches correctly. I was thinking of supergluing a small scrap of rubber into each notch to give me more grip, but am wondering if others have had the same problem and if so, what was done to solve it?

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT xxxx Lost it all by playing before recovered.
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0X Long Pips


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Nov 2012, 14:18 
Offline
Reverend Reversal
User avatar

Joined: 04 May 2008, 07:41
Posts: 334
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 12 times
Blade: Rendler Smart
FH: Hurricane 8 hard
BH: Grass DTechs OX
Hey Southpaw, I don't know if this helps, but here's another way to hold the bat using a Seemiller-type grip. My Seemiller grip (which I've used for over 40 years) is a bit different from the way others hold their bats. I have my index finger almost straight up the back of the bat, or pointing at one o'clock position. This allows me to exert leverage on both forehand and backhand side, and also good flexibility of the wrist. It probably does not allow for as powerful a drive stroke as holding the bat with the thumb and index finger on opposite sides, but what I gain in flexibility of my wrist compensates for that. You mentioned that you are double-jointed, which would mean that you would have even greater flexibility with such a grip. Also, I don't have any issues with my thumb or index finger sliding off the edge of the bat. My backhand drive and loop strokes are very similar to what Hookshot described. With this grip, to hit a conventional backhand counter-drive stroke with the pips, all I have to do is drop my index finger down (if you look at my avatar, you can see me doing this). So, in an instant I can hit two completely different BH strokes. Now, when it comes to BH chopping, it is most often with the pips. But, I can twiddle and chop with the inverted side for variety.

Anyway, just thought I'd give you another option to think about. If you want to see this grip in action, there are videos of me playing here: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=15958
In the above videos, perhaps the fifth game listed will give you the best idea of the kinds of strokes I hit.

Good luck with this!


Attachments:
PA310002 c-001.jpg
PA310002 c-001.jpg [ 162.27 KiB | Viewed 723 times ]

_________________
USATT rating - 1999

Blade - Rendler Smart FH - Hurricane 8 hard black BH - Grass DTechs OX red
Blade - BBC 9/10/9 FH - Hurricane 8 black BH - Dragon Talon OX red
Blade - Hallmark Aurora FH - Hurricane 8 black BH - Joola Badman OX red
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Nov 2012, 15:43 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 19:52
Posts: 730
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Blade: TT Piet Homemade 6 ply
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0x
JimWeiland wrote:
Hey Southpaw, I don't know if this helps, but here's another way to hold the bat using a Seemiller-type grip. My Seemiller grip (which I've used for over 40 years) is a bit different from the way others hold their bats. I have my index finger almost straight up the back of the bat, or pointing at one o'clock position. This allows me to exert leverage on both forehand and backhand side, and also good flexibility of the wrist. It probably does not allow for as powerful a drive stroke as holding the bat with the thumb and index finger on opposite sides, but what I gain in flexibility of my wrist compensates for that. You mentioned that you are double-jointed, which would mean that you would have even greater flexibility with such a grip. Also, I don't have any issues with my thumb or index finger sliding off the edge of the bat. My backhand drive and loop strokes are very similar to what Hookshot described. With this grip, to hit a conventional backhand counter-drive stroke with the pips, all I have to do is drop my index finger down (if you look at my avatar, you can see me doing this). So, in an instant I can hit two completely different BH strokes. Now, when it comes to BH chopping, it is most often with the pips. But, I can twiddle and chop with the inverted side for variety.

Anyway, just thought I'd give you another option to think about. If you want to see this grip in action, there are videos of me playing here: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=15958
In the above videos, perhaps the fifth game listed will give you the best idea of the kinds of strokes I hit.

Good luck with this!


Very interesting . Actually, on Tuesday someone was telling me about you playing with a Seemiller grip, so its real nice of you to jump in with a different idea. I'll go watch the matches see what there is to see.

IBTW, just sitting here, it feels ok, but I don't know if I have the angles correct or not, or how to adjust them. Do you think you could show me a pic of the other side so I can see where your thumb and other fingers go?

I can tell that I can at least somewhat control the blade angle depending on where on the back I put the finger, but will have to try it to see how it works...

PS: I went down and hit with it. Forehand topspin and chop are good. Seemiller backhand vs topspin works, but I really have to stretch that pointer finger to the lower 1/2 of the blade to get it open enough to keep from going into the net. I'll see if I can figure a way to modify the handle a little to make it easier. My regular long pips backhand will require moving the finger, but I sort of have been doing that the past 18 months with shakehands anyway, so I'd think I can do it. I haven't tried the regular backhand shots yet, but hopefully they will work as before.

After watching the videos it becomes apparent the value of being able to block as well as hit from either side and attack with either rubber.

Thanks for posting...

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT xxxx Lost it all by playing before recovered.
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0X Long Pips


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2012, 03:34 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 19:52
Posts: 730
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Blade: TT Piet Homemade 6 ply
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0x
I've been getting a callous on the side of my thumb, so did some sanding on the handle, and its better.

I've been trying to play it, with some success. I'm doing well serving with it, and have a new spin that is winning points, and am able to hit back weaker topspin shots to my backhand if I'm able to recognize it in time. I do have a tough time getting myself to use it in a game, but its because it isn't ingrained in my game, I think. Hopefully this will improve over time as it becomes more reliable. I've been working with it on the robot, and it is slowly getting better.

One very nice thing is that my other shots are still working pretty well with it, so its a choice to use it or not.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT xxxx Lost it all by playing before recovered.
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0X Long Pips


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2017, 13:09 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 19:52
Posts: 730
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Blade: TT Piet Homemade 6 ply
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0x
It still doesn't come easily to do, but when it hits the table it is just wicked. Someday I'll get to where I can do it reliably more often.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT xxxx Lost it all by playing before recovered.
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Tibhar Evolution MXP Max
BH: Tibhar Grass DTecs 0X Long Pips


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2


Don't want to see this advertisement? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2012 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




Don't forget to 'LIKE' our forum on Facebook if you enjoy the content: