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Do you like the idea of an ITTF WATCH section?
Yes great idea 100%  100%  [ 13 ]
Yes, but with some changes 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
No, it won't work 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
No, it will be detrimental to the forum 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 13
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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2013, 19:24 
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Some of you may remember the Starting an indep International TT Player's Association, which produced some great ideas and discussions, but was put on hold because we didn't really have the support and resources to get it going.

As an alternative, or perhaps a stepping stone towards something bigger, would it be worthwhile to have an ITTF Watch section, where we discuss any new developments or press releases by the ITTF, and also discuss issues that the ITTF should be taking action?

The thing that bugs me, and which is once again driving me, is that the ITTF is not accountable to anyone, so they can do as they please. This certainly does not mean all their decisions are bad, and no doubt they're doing some good work and have some really good people working there. However some of the decision seem illogical, not thought through very well and possible not in the best interest of our sport. These are the issues I'd like to see discussed here, and if the section proves successful it can be a central point for people to discuss these issues, and we can talk about how we can go about dealing with them. The section can also become a really useful resource of keeping track of certain decisions or behaviour, and every step that led to it.
If the section does prove popular, and we start to make enough noise, it will make more publicity, and publicity is certain an effective way to try and make an organisation more accountable.

What I do like to see in this section:
1. Discussions of any new ITTF proposition or rule changes (eg new plastic balls)
2. Discussions of ITTF public statements
3. Historic account of the steps that led to certain changes or decisions (eg tuner ban)
4. Examples of where the ITTF is inconsistant or biassed towards or against certain individuals, organisations or manufacturers (eg allowing some big manufacturers to get away with certain things that little ones would be penalised for).

What I don't like to see in this section:
1. This should not be a section for 'ITTF bashing', which has proven top be counter-productive as it turns people against each other instead of uniting us for a common cause.

What do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: ITTF Watch section
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2013, 19:55 
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I agree that these are topics this forum should be discussing as it seems other forums are having all the good discussions on the ITTF these days.

I don't know what "ITTF bashing" is. Does it mean we can't question the truthfulness of the celluloid ban and other things the ITTF tells us? Does it mean we're not allowed to bring up the looooooooong list of damaging changes the ITTF has been making under Adham's rule because "people are tired of it" or "we should just get over it?" Does it means we're not allowed to express our anger or frustration toward the ITTF even though their agenda is clearly not in the best interest of the players?

There are always going to be ITTF critics and ITTF supporters as the ITTF is an extremely polarizing organization. People aren't going to all agree and it's a touchy subject that people are very passionate about. For example, I would think we would be united against bad things like the new plastic ball, but there will even be supporters of that, I guarantee it.

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 Post subject: Re: ITTF Watch section
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2013, 20:23 
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Yes that's a fair question, and I agree this can be hard to define.

In my view a discussion turns into so called "bashing" (I did not make up this term but it seems to stick :oops: ) when we're no longer discussing the topic at hand, and we're throwing personal feeling or unsubstantiated claims into the topic to try and make our case. If we want the section to be effective we need to discuss the facts, and one topic at the time, and not use this section to express our anger and frustration towards the ITTF. Members can post this elsewhere if people feel the need, but in this section we must try and stick to the facts and evidence for the topic at hand. Although I can certainly understand and relate to people's anger and frustration at times (and even share it at times!), I don't think it can have a place in this section if we want ti to be effective.

Yes some topics will be harder to keep on track, but I think we are mature enough to handle it, and if we succeed than it's going to be a lot more constructive for others, compared to a thread where members express their personal frustration.

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 Post subject: Re: ITTF Watch section
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2013, 21:15 
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I thought we already had a thread like this...called MNNB's blog :lol:

Mind you his blog tends to stray into more interesting things too :P :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: ITTF Watch section
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2013, 01:52 
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RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
I thought we already had a thread like this...called MNNB's blog :lol:

Mind you his blog tends to stray into more interesting things too :P :lol:

That's the reason I started the blog. A surprising number of people want to sweep a lot of this stuff under the carpet and just forget about it.

Some would probably consider my recent reports of the ITTF flagrantly breaking its own rules in the Stiga Calibra Tour affair as ITTF bashing. As far as I'm concerned the ITTF has been bashing us.

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 Post subject: Re: ITTF Watch section
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2013, 07:12 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
Some would probably consider my recent reports of the ITTF flagrantly breaking its own rules in the Stiga Calibra Tour affair as ITTF bashing. As far as I'm concerned the ITTF has been bashing us.

I wouldn't think that's bashing. The fact that they are advertising the rubber before it's been approved is exactly the sort of thing we want to discuss here, and post all the evidence.

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 Post subject: Re: ITTF Watch section
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2013, 16:02 
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Do any of the other members have any view on this? Remember you can just vote based on what's being proposed and discussed... you don't have to say anything. ;)

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2013, 07:38 
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I like this idea, especially as it keeps things together. I think if we want a real world example of the kind of behaviour we want to avoid then you don't have to look much further than a typical day in political life, especially when politicians are all together. No name calling is a good start. I look forward to at least reading some of the discussions that come out of this.

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2013, 09:42 
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Thanks Oskar! :up:

If we do decide to go ahead (and I'm hoping for some more feedback/discussion before we decide), a new section in the "Table Tennis HOTLINE: TT Officials, Professional Players/Coaches and Manufacturers" seems appropriate. We could possibly remove the "Professional Table Tennis Players & Coaches", as unfortunately it does not seem to get much use.

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2013, 10:22 
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I think it's a great idea and at least it can lead to more objective and informational topics, in contrary to some (recent) discussions (e.g. the Calibra Tour thread on TTDaily).


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2013, 15:10 
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Lets try it and see what happens. Go for it!

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2013, 15:47 
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ebark63 wrote:
Lets try it and see what happens. Go for it!

yes Thats what I think too

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2013, 20:53 
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I think the idea of an ITTF watch is a good one :up:
As players surely we are the major part of the game so it can only be healthy for us all to review & discuss any new ITTF game proposition or rule change.
After all without us would there reason for them? :^)

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 Post subject: Re: ITTF Watch section
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2013, 17:27 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
...
Some would probably consider my recent reports of the ITTF flagrantly breaking its own rules in the Stiga Calibra Tour affair as ITTF bashing...

You may be thinking of my few posts in the matter. I must say I agree with you to a large degree. I felt it appropriate to give Stiga some credit for a "less blatant breach" (compared to the initiative many of us remember from Andro). Given the company size and their need to maintain a TT reputation, Stiga need to be "on the edge". Maybe my responding was a hurried approach that would benefit from more thinking before doing. I recognize that, but can't unring the bell now...

I also believe that my assumed role as the "devil's advocate" in the matter has allowed you a slight additional momentum, which you have managed to use well. ;)

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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2013, 18:10 
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keme wrote:
I also believe that my assumed role as the "devil's advocate" in the matter has allowed you a slight additional momentum, which you have managed to use well.

I am considered ITTF-basher #1 by some people around here. Even though I can back up everything I've stated, there was a faction at one time on this forum that while acknowledging the shady practices of the ITTF, urged us to wave the white flag and "get over it." Any kind of venting became "ITTF bashing." Tongue-in-cheek parodies or cartoons that were once considered humorous suddenly became "ITTF bashing." So we quit talking about it and let other forums take the lead on all things ITTF. If we do this section, it will reopen the door to some good topics and discussions as well as be an organized archive for people to refer to the future.

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