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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2014, 15:52 
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Iron Pips
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auzcar wrote:
I had a small session tonight, mostly sparring against the younger players but the main team played some matches in the end as well. I bought another Joo blade to have a backup and went with a flared grip this time since I realised that I don't twiddle nearly as much now anyways and then I kinda prefer flared.

I put the rubbers from my main blade on the new one to get a good comparison in feel between the blades. The new one definitely has a better feel and also it's a tad slower, felt more controlled as well. Might just be that the glue hadn't 100% set yet though, I often feel like it needs a day or so to get really good with the water based glues. The new one is 1 gram lighter as well (93g). Anyway, I'll keep on using the new one as my main blade if nothing unexpected happens.


I have two Joo-blades. They are very different. One is lighter (don't know how much) and I can't loop nearly as well with it. It might ve only weight but I feel there is something else that differs. Don't like it...
I readthat the pro's get like ten blades of the same and then try out them all and select one or two to keep. Would be kind of expensive :)

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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2014, 16:55 
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Holey Woods
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I've had perhaps 7 or 8 Defplays during the years and the third one I got had much nicer feeling and was a bit faster, I played with this during 2½ years until it finally broke (I tend to rage a bit sometimes) and after that I couldn't find one that was as good as that one was for me. I guess it's quite clear why it can differ from blade to blade, wood is a living thing and two pieces will have a bit different characteristics even if it's the same type of wood.

In general I think that it's mostly the feeling that varies between blades but if you have one blade that's in one end of the spectrum and another one that's in the other end the differences can be quite noticeable in speed/hardness/flex as well.

The Joo blade is of course a bit expensive to just buy a bunch of blades and pick out the best but I've found less variation in the three I've owned compared to the Defplay, and Clipper as well (which I played with when I was an attacker). My first Joo that broke was 102g which was way too heavy for my liking with thick sponged LP so when I ordered the new one from Japsko before christmas I asked for a blade around 90-95g and received one that was 94g. The newest one that I got yesterday he claimed was going to be 93g but my scale showed 94g, which was even better!

If I'm going to be really picky I feel that the setup is now just a tad too light but when I buy 2.1mm on FH the next time it'll probably be as close to the sweetspot as I'll get, it won't be too much if I decide step up to 1.7mm P1r in the future either.

PS: I'm planning to record a video of a training session but the guy I usually do these kinds of things with have been awol the last week so that might take some time before I get around to that.

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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2014, 18:05 
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I see that you have played lot with Defplay blade, tried NSD, but now you are playing with JHS.

How would you describe differences between those blades and why you play JHS now?


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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2014, 18:16 
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Holey Woods
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Roy wrote:
I see that you have played lot with Defplay blade, tried NSD, but now you are playing with JHS.

How would you describe differences between those blades and why you play JHS now?


I played Defplay when I was a pushblocker, back then (no more than 1 month ago) I tried to hit as much as possible with my FH and out of the blades I tried I thought that Defplay gave the best attacking characteristics while still working good with the pips. NSD is a lot stiffer, harder and slower. It's much more controlled in pushblocking though but for me the FH didn't work at all and that was my main focus. The Joo blade didn't work for me in pushblocking, too fast and bouncy, FH worked great but the Defplay gave me more all together. I think that the Joo blade is a bit too hard and clonky for the FH as well when you have an OX sheet on the BH, there's no feeling and it's harder to engage the sponge on the FH.

Since I've now made the switch to modern defense I wanted a blade that's good on FH attacks and works well far from the table, both in chopping and attacking. To me it feels a lot better with the Joo blade when I have a sponged LP and the FH is even better compared to the Defplay. It's just more oomph and better balance as well, I like a little head heaviness but it just gets too much with thick sponge on the Defplay.

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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2014, 20:09 
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Blade: Joola CWX
FH: Joola rhyzm 2.1
BH: Troublemaker ox
So, it sounds to me something like this...

FH: JSH>DP>>NSD
Pushblocking with ox: NSD>DP>>JSH
Chopping with sponge: JSH>DP ? NSD

JHS is best in away from the table defence with sponge and with very good FH.
Defplay is good for allround play with ox with good FH
NSD is good for at the table disturbance and control play, but FH attack is lacking.


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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2014, 23:00 
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Holey Woods
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Roy wrote:
So, it sounds to me something like this...

FH: JSH>DP>>NSD
Pushblocking with ox: NSD>DP>>JSH
Chopping with sponge: JSH>DP ? NSD

JHS is best in away from the table defence with sponge and with very good FH.
Defplay is good for allround play with ox with good FH
NSD is good for at the table disturbance and control play, but FH attack is lacking.

In a nutshell, yes. These are my subjective opinions though and they are largely based on what feeling I like so it might differ for other people, as always :)

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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2014, 06:24 
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I really don't know how I can make my strategy work to the best, as it is right now my FH gets left out too much. My FH is still my best weapon and against better players I have a hard time finding enough opportunities to attack with the new style. When I try to stay a bit at the table it gets really hard when I get caught on the backhand and when I back off right away it's hard to find an opportunity to attack. This would probably be solved if my chopping got better and I could just wait patiently for the right opportunity, which is the plan in the long run, but I feel like that will take at least 2-3 years before I'm there. Let's hope I'm wrong! :P

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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2014, 16:43 
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Iron Pips
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You spotted the solution yourself. It won't take that long. When your league starts in september again it will feel a lot better (if you practice during summer).
But you will need good serves for third ball attack. And get better at pushing with inverted over the table. That will give you more attacking opportunities I think.

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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2014, 16:51 
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Def-attack wrote:
You spotted the solution yourself. It won't take that long. When your league starts in september again it will feel a lot better (if you practice during summer).
But you will need good serves for third ball attack. And get better at pushing with inverted over the table. That will give you more attacking opportunities I think.


I just feel like I'm in a period of doubt atm, mostly about the equipment and how well it suits my strengths and weaknesses. I feel that I'm loosing my game at the table and my main weapon, the FH, get's put away in the closet somewhere to gather dust. When I look at old matches and also look back at the last weekend I realised that I win 90% of my points with my FH and it feels so weird just neutering my best weapon.

Man is this hard! I just hate to loose so much when I know I can play at a higher level just by changing a few things.

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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2014, 17:59 
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Well, in a fact you are trying to play the same game as worlds top defender play. In theory, you just have to watch top defenders videos and imitate.

Problem for me (and for the numerous other out of shape defenders) in that kind of dream is out of the limitations of fysique. To play a world class style you have to have very fast legs. Big majority of players have overweight, too slow muscles cells and ant too less power to move fast. I lack in all of those areas.

So what to do, if you don't have fast enough legs? You buy pushblocking suitable equipment, which could be used to chop too. That's the solution of majority of out of shape defender to overcame their fysical limitations.

To be able to play top player style...

1. You have to be fast and skillfull as Joo to defend ball after ball...
2. You must fast enough to step around to hit the FH from the BH corner and to reach the return after that
3. You must be skillfull enough to enter FH looping rallies by counterlooping.
4. You must fish the FH aggressively (a la Weixing) to turn the defence to attack.
5. You have to have killer serves to set 3. ball attacks.

I can do the 4. and the 5. in some extent, but numbers 1, 2, and 3 are out of my reach due to fysical and skill limitations.

So for the amateur player it is very difficult to combine long distance defence and strong FH attacks due the limitations in speed (and skill).


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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2014, 18:25 
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I'm still a young and fit guy at 23 but I'm nowhere near the physique that the top guys have. As a very tall guy I'm not slow but not fast either, the main problem though lies in my ability to perform the same stroke consistently over and over again.

If I wanted to optimize the results I would probably choose to play a style where I can chop-block and play at the table with the pips as well as backing off and chop if the need arises or if it works better against a specific player. This way I would be able to utilize my FH a lot more and play more to my strengths. Closest player to this style would be Sun Jianfei. The problem is finding a LP that can work with this style and are able to put the harder attacks on the table when I'm at the table.

But seriously guys, the whole reason I started this journey was to find more joy in playing again and at first this worked really well. However, it's getting really frustrating to keep loosing to players I normally beat and this might be even worse for my interest in the game. If I continue down this road I will need at least another year of loosing matches I know I can win before I'm back at the same level as before and I don't know if I can survive that to be honest, I'm just too much of a competitive person. Of course I won't give up now but if I feel like I'm still loosing interest in another month or two I will have to make a change.

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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2014, 18:35 
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auzcar wrote:
Def-attack wrote:
You spotted the solution yourself. It won't take that long. When your league starts in september again it will feel a lot better (if you practice during summer).
But you will need good serves for third ball attack. And get better at pushing with inverted over the table. That will give you more attacking opportunities I think.


I just feel like I'm in a period of doubt atm, mostly about the equipment and how well it suits my strengths and weaknesses. I feel that I'm loosing my game at the table and my main weapon, the FH, get's put away in the closet somewhere to gather dust. When I look at old matches and also look back at the last weekend I realised that I win 90% of my points with my FH and it feels so weird just neutering my best weapon.

Man is this hard! I just hate to loose so much when I know I can play at a higher level just by changing a few things.


I can assure you that your winning rate will go up later. Do not be afraid to loose your game at the table, you will still win points there but you will mostly need to back away from the table on time before you can apporoach and win the point. But you can also stay at the table against some opponents and play similar to how you used to.
When you get better at chopping your opponents will avoid it and go for your FH, and then you will kill. You need balance between FH and BH when playing modern defence. Keep practicing FH but practice BH-chop more for the next months. Play agasint as many looping styles you can, learn to chop slow loops with little and massive spin, learn to chop against fast attacks (smashes almost). When you feel completely safe in chopping you will find new strategies to your game that will give you opportunities for FH attacks.

When I play my game falls apart completely if my FH attack doesn't work. I am so dependent on it, and when I look at my game I win lots of points from that. Not 80 % but about 50 I would guess (if you count all points, not only when you win the point yourself).

Do not give up, you knew when you started this that you would hav doubts along the way. Remember your frustration about your old game, remember how good it felt when you changed. You have just started your journey.... and it is not a short one but it will be worth it!

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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2014, 21:59 
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I guess I just have to keep on fighting or "borra ned huvudet och köra" as we say in Sweden. It's just frustrating as hell.

I've got my next tournament in a month or so, let's hope for a better result then.

EDIT: I've now spent the last 4 hours looking at matches of the top modern defenders and I think the doubts blew away, at least for this time, now I just want to play instead :lol:

On another note, Kang Dongsoo is really entertaining to watch! I just hope he can keep getting better and if we're really lucky we might have another Joo situation on our hands.

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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2014, 22:51 
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auzcar wrote:
I guess I just have to keep on fighting or "borra ned huvudet och köra" as we say in Sweden. It's just frustrating as hell.

I've got my next tournament in a month or so, let's hope for a better result then.


Remember that even if you loose some matches against people "you should not loose against", you will most likely beat a few persons that you didn't as a pushblocker.

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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2014, 01:19 
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Okay guys, I had a real moment of weakness but in retrospect I'm kinda glad over what happened. I had a bad session thursday night and the day after I tried a session with my old blade/style, and to be honest the results was actually worse. I had another one this morning and this session was just as bad, the only doubts that are stuck in my mind now is that I like the feeling of OX better and that I love the characteristics close to the table. To be clear I'm thinking of a style like Sun Jianfei's, I haven't decided if I think that a change of course into that style is a failure on my part or not. To be honest I like chopping with OX as well and I seem to get more opportunities to attack when defending with OX, it's probably just my technique though.

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