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Back on topic please...

Here is the Brett's video about recovering from the Reverse Pendulum Backspin Serve:



Some very useful pointers here, applicable to recovery from any serve.

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I was facing similar issues when transitioning from predominantly pushing to attacking 3rd ball. What I found most useful other than taking a natural step back as part of the service is preparing for the return by observing the opponent and keeping loose while anticipating your the first move. The same advice against watching your own shot too much applies generally, but even more critical here since for example there's greater danger in the decision to step around so close to the table than in usual rally (and you should know even better where the serve is landing).

In TT there's a common compromise between staying light vs planting for power, and it's useful to favor the former in the decision (vs execution) heavy early-point. The easiest way to get a feel for success is recognize the intent to make a good decision & act on it quickly, and compare to when such action was possible when replaying the point back (in your head or otherwise).

For example, preparation to defend or counterattack can commence soon as the opponent starts stepping to attack the serve. Or sometimes the direction of attack is unclear until much latter so commitment to left-right movement has to be stayed (though this is uncommon until higher level when players start to hide their motivation, so it pays to pay close attention). IMO it's perhaps a good idea to overcommit a bit at first and then dial back as needed since most club players instead suffer from hesitation & become too reactionary.

So that no one gets confused by mumbo jumbo from the faceless, here is a high level player discussing the topic in practical detail:

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
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Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Yup, very useful indeed. I think I do the "elbow too close to the body" thing, I'll watch out for that next time I play.

I've been trying to figure out why people use the (assuming a right handed player) "right leg stretched behind" stance when serving. Most internationals seem to use it for forehand serves. Of the exceptions, I've noticed, is Fukuhara Ai - she stands more at right angles to the table. The "right leg stretched behind" stance makes it more difficult to get into the ready position, since you have to make a half turn with your body and bring your right foot a long way forward. My theory is that it's a holdover from hidden serves, as are serves done close to the body. I've always used a stance like Fukuhara Ai's - the body is facing to the right, feet facing the same direction. Then it just takes a small quarter turn to get into the ready position.

Iskandar

Hi Iskandar,

It makes you lower and the time isn't a big issue...you can still get into good position by the time the ball hits the opponent's side. Ai Fukuhara is tiny so she doesn't need to get lower.

Regards, Brett

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If you can't understand what it means, please consider asking Brett Clarke for a explanation.

It's technically more for stability. The straighter leg limits the degrees of freedom when you adjust height with the left. To demonstrate this try doing the exactly same serve with the same right leg bent near the left one.

So by consistently taking a lower serving stance, I could make even my current backhand serves better? So just widen the legs when serving? (I am not sure how I would recover without straightening out given how I play though...)

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

One advantage of serving with the backhand is it can put you in playing position immediately, without having to perform the recovery explained in video PR 08. I would be trying to get into my best playing position and doing the serve from there. Leg's comfortably wide and bent and keep the head down and level during and after the serve. Straightening the legs after the serve isn't good. There are variations of course. See D. Ovtcharov for example. He is moving around, trying to create momentum in other ways.

Part of the magic of W. Henzell's Tomahawk serve is the incredible position it puts him in for his backhand oriented game. People make mistakes off his serve as they can see his amazing, early position in their peripheral. I once slowed down his regular Pendulum serve and he is later on the recovery than say V. Samsonov or a Chinese.

There are no absolutes in this game and there are exceptions everywhere. It's important to work things into the context of your own game, especially if you have specific limitations. For example, in Greg's recovery video above, he doesn't want to cross his legs for the wide forehand. Most top players are thrilled to cross for that wide forehand, so they take a more aggressive position. But for Greg, it doesn't fit into HIS game well, so he's had a good think about it and shared it with others. I found his video relaxing btw. I like his style.

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YES!!! Keeping the elbow away from the body in the ready stance helps a LOT - I tried this yesterday. I didn't even realize I was holding the elbow up next to the body or that it was an issue until I watched that video. Thanks!!

Serving stance - I'm not short, on the other hand I'm not terribly tall, either (5' 10" or so). So maybe I don't need to stretch the leg out back to get low enough, I can easily serve from below table height (illegal, of course) if I wanted to by bending forwards somewhat. Hmmm....

The first time I ever saw anyone serve in that right-leg-to-the-rear position what the first time someone used a hidden serve on me (probably 1998-99). I'd been playing for many years before that, and had been to many tournaments and watched a lot of people play, but that was the first time I ever saw it done. I'd just started playing again after several years of not playing, so I missed the beginnings of hidden serves. (Missed almost the entire Waldner era, come to think of it..) One of Danny Seemiller's students moved to town and we were hitting around in a dorm basement, and when he did that serve it shocked the heck out of me. What WAS that?? The ball just popped out from behind his elbow. To do those serves you had to turn your back to the opponent and serve close to your body. No one did that before, but people continue to do it today. That was also the first time I saw a reverse pendulum serve - I suppose it's a lot easier when you're turned away from the opponent in that position, and a lot more useful when you could hide it, as a variation.

Iskandar

iskandar taib, if you can take one or two good things away from my content, I'm happy with that. Elbow position is a big topic which I will cover in video format, of course. I'm still struggling to understand words on a screen. I think I need to go back to school

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> So maybe I don't need to stretch the leg out back to get low enough, I can easily serve from below table height (illegal, of course) if I wanted to by bending forwards somewhat. Hmmm....

You get better sight and control when the serve is near your chest like T-rex rather than off to the side or low.

I'm not a fan of rigid forms like elbow, hands, knee angle in this position or that. Compared to a loose natural stance it will be worse unless maybe the form is always transfixed to the correct start position, since you'll have to loosen anyway to move any significant distance for the ball quickly. Though I guess a more correct fixed starting position is better than a wrong rigid starting position.

If you carefully observe & contrast typical (over)coached adults and those considered "natural" at the sport by far the greatest difference is the effortless grace of movement compared to the robotic result of trying to adhere to numerous guidelines. The typical argument is that this supposed natural talent isn't something which can be learned but I can attest that it could with the right motivation. It just takes some introspection & methodology outside the typical "stand here, swing there" curriculum, and tends to open a lot of doors to naturally good form sans rote drilling.

Hmm... so maybe you should be teaching me the tomahawk serve? The principle is very helpful. In fact, I might be doing my backhand serve too far in the backhand corner. Will move more towards the middle of the table and try that out in a few matches today.

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Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Interesting that we both had the same exact Eureka moment about elbow position. I haven't had time to drill it in, but it will be a big focus of future video for my analysis.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Most of the time I have no idea what you are trying to say, but it is not about being rigid or loose it's about learning as we go or getting some help (self analysed, getting coached, or advice from peers) rather than doing it wrong for ever, the other thing is what looks like rigid stance to you may look very natural to me or the person themselves,

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