OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Everything is fine with zava but when they return slow no spin balls i missed a lot.how different would be playing with keiler penhold?

I can't imagine it would be terribly different. If you're missing slow no-spin balls, it's likely that you're not getting the timing right. Your rhythm is being disrupted by the change in pace. Make sure you watch the height/arc of the ball and hit it at the top of the bounce. You might need to move in or out to do this, but if you hit the ball at the top of the bounce, you won't miss.

I'd suggest setting up some drills to test this - either get a friend to alternate hitting normal topspin and then slower float balls, or set up a robot to do something similar. Watch and feel the difference in ball flight, and where you need to position yourself in order to hit the ball at the peak of the bounce.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Got the Keiler 1.8 yesterday & used it on bh. Coming from Xiom Omega V Tour i found that the adjustment needed was bearable... At the end of the 1 hour training, i was really digging it... Looking forward to more training & familiarisation with it...

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Hi,

give the Keiler some time! I play him for about 3 month now, and it get´s better and better. The attacking possibilities are superb and the disrupting enormous, esp. Block against Topspin.


Greetings Claus

And I would like the official confirmation that keiler plays like a short pip .how different plays from waran?any other pips with flatter flight than waran but not so tricky to handle.

How diferent is keiler compared to gipfelsturm? I would like a flatter arc version of waran

Gipfelsturm has quite a bit less spin capability. It kills off spin and can play some of the long pip strokes, such as the long pip punchblock against back spin. But it has virtually no reversal when blocking top spins, and is about as useful when chopblocking as Keiler is. It's nothing like a 'true' long pip in that regard. Gipfel returns dead balls when receiving low to medium power top spins. The more spin on the ball, the more it actually reverses. However, it takes quite a spinny loop to produce these effects and at most levels in local clubs you're not likely to encounter them. So you can expect to mainly return dead balls or very light spin reversals. It is really good as a "point and shoot" kind of rubber. Meaning that the incoming spin is scrubbed off very effectively and you can return with blocks, not having much trouble dealing with the spins. It's very forgiving on that front. Practicing on my robot with top spin/speed settings, I could block the balls back without much effort or care. Whereas with a normal inverted or even short pip, slight deviations would result in big errors. Which is why I think gipfelsturm is more of a passive rubber in comparison to Keiler. If you smash/attack more than you block, I'd say stick with Keiler. If you like to directional block against top spin balls and attack back spins (long pip style), then gipfelsturm is your man!

Gipfel is much more difficult to attack top spins with, although I think it is easier to use when attacking back spins than Keiler is. In that sense it is more of a long pip. I'd say it functions as a medium pip in most instances, but when going against heavy spins or back spin, it becomes more LP like in nature.

Black 1.8mm for reference

_________________
SOULSPIN CUSTOM BLADES
Fh: Spinny rubber
Bh: Not so spinny rubber...

No, Keiler is easy to play with. If you're used to Waran, I'd say Keiler is actually easier. It's more disruptive, and not as fast, but with plenty of control.

What is the problem with a low-spin ball? With Waran (or Keiler) you should be able to hit straight through a no-spin ball, with devastating effect.[/quote]

How diferent is keiler compared to gipfelsturm? I would like a flatter arc version of waran[/quote]


Gipfelsturm has quite a bit less spin capability. It kills off spin and can play some of the long pip strokes, such as the long pip punchblock against back spin. But it has virtually no reversal when blocking top spins, and is about as useful when chopblocking as Keiler is. It's nothing like a 'true' long pip in that regard. Gipfel returns dead balls when receiving low to medium power top spins. The more spin on the ball, the more it actually reverses. However, it takes quite a spinny loop to produce these effects and at most levels in local clubs you're not likely to encounter them. So you can expect to mainly return dead balls or very light spin reversals. It is really good as a "point and shoot" kind of rubber. Meaning that the incoming spin is scrubbed off very effectively and you can return with blocks, not having much trouble dealing with the spins. It's very forgiving on that front. Practicing on my robot with top spin/speed settings, I could block the balls back without much effort or care. Whereas with a normal inverted or even short pip, slight deviations would result in big errors. Which is why I think gipfelsturm is more of a passive rubber in comparison to Keiler. If you smash/attack more than you block, I'd say stick with Keiler. If you like to directional block against top spin balls and attack back spins (long pip style), then gipfelsturm is your man!

Gipfel is much more difficult to attack top spins with, although I think it is easier to use when attacking back spins than Keiler is. In that sense it is more of a long pip. I'd say it functions as a medium pip in most instances, but when going against heavy spins or back spin, it becomes more LP like in nature.

Black 1.8mm for reference[/quote]

Do you think keiler could work with cpen? I play with waran

How diferent is keiler compared to gipfelsturm? I would like a flatter arc version of waran[/quote]


Gipfelsturm has quite a bit less spin capability. It kills off spin and can play some of the long pip strokes, such as the long pip punchblock against back spin. But it has virtually no reversal when blocking top spins, and is about as useful when chopblocking as Keiler is. It's nothing like a 'true' long pip in that regard. Gipfel returns dead balls when receiving low to medium power top spins. The more spin on the ball, the more it actually reverses. However, it takes quite a spinny loop to produce these effects and at most levels in local clubs you're not likely to encounter them. So you can expect to mainly return dead balls or very light spin reversals. It is really good as a "point and shoot" kind of rubber. Meaning that the incoming spin is scrubbed off very effectively and you can return with blocks, not having much trouble dealing with the spins. It's very forgiving on that front. Practicing on my robot with top spin/speed settings, I could block the balls back without much effort or care. Whereas with a normal inverted or even short pip, slight deviations would result in big errors. Which is why I think gipfelsturm is more of a passive rubber in comparison to Keiler. If you smash/attack more than you block, I'd say stick with Keiler. If you like to directional block against top spin balls and attack back spins (long pip style), then gipfelsturm is your man!

Gipfel is much more difficult to attack top spins with, although I think it is easier to use when attacking back spins than Keiler is. In that sense it is more of a long pip. I'd say it functions as a medium pip in most instances, but when going against heavy spins or back spin, it becomes more LP like in nature.

Black 1.8mm for reference[/quote]

Do you think keiler could work with cpen? I play with waran[/quote]

I don't play cpen at all, but I wouldn't see why not. Kind of the He Zhi Wen style of block/hit? You might be lacking some spin for services, but other than that probably not too much. So long as you don't really loop, I think Keiler or Gipfelsturm would be fine.

_________________
SOULSPIN CUSTOM BLADES
Fh: Spinny rubber
Bh: Not so spinny rubber...

Gipfelsturm has quite a bit less spin capability. It kills off spin and can play some of the long pip strokes, such as the long pip punchblock against back spin. But it has virtually no reversal when blocking top spins, and is about as useful when chopblocking as Keiler is. It's nothing like a 'true' long pip in that regard. Gipfel returns dead balls when receiving low to medium power top spins. The more spin on the ball, the more it actually reverses. However, it takes quite a spinny loop to produce these effects and at most levels in local clubs you're not likely to encounter them. So you can expect to mainly return dead balls or very light spin reversals. It is really good as a "point and shoot" kind of rubber. Meaning that the incoming spin is scrubbed off very effectively and you can return with blocks, not having much trouble dealing with the spins. It's very forgiving on that front. Practicing on my robot with top spin/speed settings, I could block the balls back without much effort or care. Whereas with a normal inverted or even short pip, slight deviations would result in big errors. Which is why I think gipfelsturm is more of a passive rubber in comparison to Keiler. If you smash/attack more than you block, I'd say stick with Keiler. If you like to directional block against top spin balls and attack back spins (long pip style), then gipfelsturm is your man!

Gipfel is much more difficult to attack top spins with, although I think it is easier to use when attacking back spins than Keiler is. In that sense it is more of a long pip. I'd say it functions as a medium pip in most instances, but when going against heavy spins or back spin, it becomes more LP like in nature.

Black 1.8mm for reference[/quote]

Do you think keiler could work with cpen? I play with waran[/quote]

I don't play cpen at all, but I wouldn't see why not. Kind of the He Zhi Wen style of block/hit? You might be lacking some spin for services, but other than that probably not too much. So long as you don't really loop, I think Keiler or Gipfelsturm would be fine.[/quote]

Also i heard good thing about der materialspezislist break out. How is compared to keiler?

Do you think keiler could work with cpen? I play with waran[/quote]

I don't play cpen at all, but I wouldn't see why not. Kind of the He Zhi Wen style of block/hit? You might be lacking some spin for services, but other than that probably not too much. So long as you don't really loop, I think Keiler or Gipfelsturm would be fine.[/quote]

Also i heard good thing about der materialspezislist break out. How is compared to keiler?[/quote]

Don't know anything about that one.

_________________
SOULSPIN CUSTOM BLADES
Fh: Spinny rubber
Bh: Not so spinny rubber...

I just received a sheet of 1.8 black Keiler and I'll be testing it this weekend as a potential (more dangerous) FH replacement for my current Super Spinpips SP. More to come..

Firstly, i had a different impression about Gipel than skilless_slapper. Unfortunately i have to agree with him, now.
After one month with this rubber i will give my update. This rubber is very disruptive for opponents, but all kinds of attack are very inconsistent. Because of spin reverse, when you hit aggressively, ball go over the table or hit in the net. Attacking is lottery. You have to drive ball with medium speed to fall on the table. Some pushes and chops are good. But if you want to win the point(make winners), this rubber is not for that. Definitely, Gipfel is not attack minded (short) pips. You must wait opponent to make a mistake or to wait a lose balls to attack but with other side of the racket. This is why i think that this rubber is far better for backhand. I used Gipfel 1.8 mm on forehand and anti on backand, and i cannot election with different balls which come to my forehand. Make me nervous and i feel that i walk on eggs. There are better rubbers for agressive attack and wining the points. In this sense, i will order Spinlord Waran 1.5.
I guess that speed of Waran 1.5 and Gipfel 1.8 is similar in general ??

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Tried 1.8 black Keiler today and was disappointed. Compared to TSP Super Spinpips (on FH) it was almost impossible for me to lift the ball over the net with a FH drive. Balls were inconsistent making it hard to rally during practice. My opponent initially commented that it didn't have much power compared to my regular TSP Super Spinpips. That was on light and medium powered strokes. On harder FH strokes the Keiler wakes up and rockets, but the end result is a rubber that's non-linear. No like.

I wasn't blown away by keiler. I found it easy enough to use, but much preferred degu and waran, both of which are excellent.


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_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!