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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2016, 16:37 
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Hi All
Yesterday I Tried a 1,0 LP.
It is very Easy to use for hitting and pushing.
Since I am primarily a chopper I Think that on the long run 1.0 sponge
Will get me further than a ox / thin sponge.
Arter All most choppers use 1.0 or more sponge.

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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2016, 17:57 
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RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
Serving with a lot of spin and forcing a spinny return helps stop being given dead balls too. Adopting a serving strategy and a returning strategy that aim to put the opponent out of their comfort zone on dishing up dead balls will see either a reduction in them, or a way to attack them from your FH.....which will guarantee they try other things. :devil:

Yes. Very spinny serve is good for the next pips shot. I use max spinny pure sidespin short BH serve and when underspin kind of return comes back, my roll has lot of top spin that jumps out of bounce and it seems to surprise even good players.

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Putting a sponged LP on is only going to make your difficulty with no spin balls worse as the sponge will amplify any errors you're making on them....like sending the ball long REALLY easily.

Like Japsican, I think that sponge makes easier to handle no spin balls, especially compared to Dtecs.


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2016, 09:25 
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T5, stay at Table and hold bat loose medium and take ball off bounce with your lp. Give it medium speed to an uncomfortable location, just enough pace to control ball and keep it deep. You will get a ball to attack, an error, or an equal reaction... be ready to bump again.

Korean women who are grandma age do this well, anyone can. Stay patient and stay at the table for those. Drift back if you like when you let them attack.

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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2016, 04:36 
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Thanks.

I Will work on This.

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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2016, 09:02 
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I think the plastic ball has exacerbated this problem and having switched to Helfire from DTecS I have still not solved it. Short and long no spin serves to my backhand side are what give me the the greatest headaches!

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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2016, 10:16 
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you must learn to attack it with lp...like in our fanti lessons we did in Vienna...

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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2016, 20:58 
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I can't get enough purchase on the short balls to push them back and I end up chopping the long ones. Thinking about switching to short pips or giving the game up.

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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2016, 03:25 
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Bulldog wrote:
I can't get enough purchase on the short balls to push them back and I end up chopping the long ones. Thinking about switching to short pips or giving the game up.

Stay strong brother. You are in the same boat as everyone....don't worry about that ball....put it back on the table and go get the next one.

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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2016, 19:04 
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Bulldog wrote:
I can't get enough purchase on the short balls to push them back and I end up chopping the long ones. Thinking about switching to short pips or giving the game up.


You will get there. I played last night against a player who has pestered me with no-spin balls, short and long. I'm now much braver about LP flicking the short balls, which is very effective. I've got a long way to go, but step-by-step I'm getting there. I was way more effective last night, to the extent that he started trying a different tactic.

Nothing in this game is free. We get certain advantages from our LP, but you have to accept the disadvantages too - it all balances out. Switching to SP won't be any different - it's like trying to iron out an air bubble - the damn thing just moves somewhere else. I played with SP instead of LP on my BH for a while earlier this year - it totally solved my problems against no-spin balls into my BH, and being locked into my BH, but opened up a whole different can of worms.

Chin up.

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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2016, 20:25 
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Here's sort of an idea - make up a practice bat with two sheets of inverted and practice that backhand with it. Or maybe just do drills with the racket reversed. Do this until backhand attacks with the inverted become second nature. Why? Perhaps that will help with the twiddling. You want the ability to, when presented with a no-spin ball to the backhand, to flip and attack. That'll make your opponent think twice before doing it, at least.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2016, 02:35 
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Great idea. I have decided to try that and will start on Sunday if I can practice instead of working.

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2016, 07:03 
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IMO twiddling to attack against these balls is the riskiest strategy of all.

Firstly, it's an order of magnitude harder to twiddle and achieve the right bat angle, that it is just to play a BH with regular inverted (or SP). As an example: when I do a robot drill with FH and BH, twiddling between FH and BH, my level of consistency is probably about 60% compared to doing the same drill with a setup with the same (non-LP) rubber on FH and BH.

Secondly, there's only a limited amount of time to train in table tennis, and the process of developing muscle memory and anticipation is a lengthy one. The difference between an attacking BH shot with inverted, and a LP shot against the same ball is very significant. By making the decision to twiddle and attack you've given yourself twice as much to learn, which either doubles your training time, or halves the effectiveness of your training.

For these two reasons, although I do sometimes twiddle, the offensive option I'm working on is to play an aggressive FH shot from the BH corner. This reduces the problem to one of fitness and footwork, which is easier to train than twiddling and playing an inverted/sp style BH shot.

Practicing with double inverted will certainly increase your confidence and ability to execute the shot, but it won't train you to twiddle, and I suspect you'll also find that the balance and weight of the blade is fairly significantly different - certainly different enough to make it feel different when you go back to your regular setup.

I'm not advising you to eschew this approach - I'm just flagging up some of the risks as I perceive (and have experienced) them.

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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2018, 10:03 
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I currently use tsp balsa 3.5 with dtecs ox. I feel the ball bounces off the pips quite fast which I quite like when I get slow/mid paced balls. My problem is when I get faster balls hit at me I am struggling to control the return. I can chop block off bounce, passive block, punch block but it seems none of these shots are consistent, I feel the margin of error is low. I try to use a light grip and it helps but even against a robot I am not returning the ball very well. if I make a slightly fuller contact with the ball which u can do fairly easily when the ball is coming at speed. The ball will go long. Do you guys think a change of blade or rubber might help? I love the short game with the setup but as you move up players become more and more aggressive and you don't always get to play a game at slow/mid pace. I also find chopping with this setup challenging but could be just my technique being poor.


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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2018, 14:40 
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situsit wrote:
I currently use tsp balsa 3.5 with dtecs ox. I feel the ball bounces off the pips quite fast which I quite like when I get slow/mid paced balls. My problem is when I get faster balls hit at me I am struggling to control the return. I can chop block off bounce, passive block, punch block but it seems none of these shots are consistent, I feel the margin of error is low.

Well, I have same feelings with ox pips, control is demanding and you tend the make easy mistake before opponent. Top ox players don't try to block hard attacks unless forced, but getting far back fast enough to chop is difficult, if you are not to top player...

I have tested recently Dtecs ox and Dtecs 0.6 and the control is just better with sponged version. You just have little more time to guide you shot and thet reduces mistakes. And with sponge you can make open blade pushing etc. against many balls that are far easier to keep safely low. With ox you must play with vertical blade and then you have to (1.) aim higher to avoid net and easy mistake or (2.) take a risky vertical push/block.


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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2018, 20:18 
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oh nice thread to stumble on. I have experienced most of these problems myself already.
Dtecs OX honestly isn't easy to control for me (on a stiga ALL classic). It plays very consistent though at least, as in it doesn't do something 1 time then something else another time. Dtecs are great long pips but the biggest issue for me is the fact that it's almost always reliant on opponents spin, so these no spin players or shots will always cause you issues as they know exactly what they are getting on the return most of the time.

The few ways around this (only using the pips) is to
1. Learn to do a fast low push block type shot long and deep to either their cross over point or wide corner.
2. Shovel shot (can find out what that means on youtube if you don't know).
3. Really punch the ball or loop it (it can work).

You could change pips but while it would help with certain things it will also not be as efficient as the dtecs with others.
Personally for the modern defence game where I look to chop or impart my own back spin on the ball I would choose FL2, FL3 or Curl P1R and with at least 1.0 sponge. No spin balls are not an issue for these but again the trade off would be not as good at the table (especially with blocking).

Curious what happened with the OP and how you getting on now?

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