OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I love the disclaimer at the end of the description for the Rasanter R50 rubber.

From the website:
"As a high to pro level player you have what it takes to master the power of this top level 50° hardness sponge boosting your topspin play. Your full throttle short strokes will activate unseen spin performance at maximum speed. Set a new benchmark with the R50 and be feared. Be honest to yourself and read above text about skills needed again."

I have 2 question for which I hope to hear some opinions....

1) Why is it a good idea to use a thicker sponge (facilitated by a thinner top sheet) with the Poly Ball?
2) If thin top sheet of Rasanter (and Aurus Select/Prime and Blue Storm) is to facilitate a thicker max (2.3mm) sponge, then is there any point in purchasing such rubbers with less than max sponge?

Cheers.

There are a few things here. First is that a thin topsheet will be more flexible, perhaps softer, in comparison to a thicker one of the same material. In theory this gives more guaranteed grip/grab on the ball because it compresses the topsheet more easily. Butterfly pushed Bryce Highspeed with this concept a while back, and their page shows some of this.

http://www.butterfly.tt/bryce-hs/#movie-bh

Is this believable? Well, Donic did some of this with Acuda Blue (and Andro with Rasant Beat), and although it did feel that the rubber gripped the ball well in all situations and there was no slippage, I found that the topsheets lacked elasticity (they felt "floppy" in some way) in comparison with the normal ESN stuff, and I though that there was a lack of low-speed rebound (ball dropped off when you play very passive shots) and a lack of spin in the high gears.

Also, you get a lighter rubber in comparison with using a thicker topsheet.

So, taking that idea and moving on - if you have a thinner topsheet for this reason, but the thinness allows a thicker sponge, then falls into the general ballpark of why thicker sponges are "good". Here is a thread where this old ground is covered:

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_po ... ?TID=34784

Why would you want thicker sponges for 40+? Well, the ball is slower and spins less, so players are (in theory) going to be swinging harder than before, or at least aiming to. On paper 2.3mm allows more compression and rebound at higher speeds (before max compression, "bottoming out" is reached), increasing catapult and maintaining an increase in spin through bigger shot speeds. The waters are muddied when different sponge hardnesses are considered of course. Would an average amateur player get anything extra from R50 in 2.3mm in comparison with 2.1mm? I doubt many would swing hard enough to gain anything. And would they actually lose out in terms of linearity and control? Hard to say - possibly.



I don't think the thin topsheet has been done to specifically enable a thicker max sponge. It's more of an additional idea andro has had IMO - an extra feature on top.

But regardless - if you like the idea of the thinner topsheet, but don't want the super-mega-max sponge, then you buy it on that basis.

Went to see what was available tabletennis11. Regular Rasant: 1.7, 1.9, 2.1. Rasant Powergrip: same. Rasanter R47: 1.7, 2.0, Max. Rasant Chaos: OX, 0.5, 1.2.

I guess none of the inverted sheets are actually available in thin sponge - no 1.5, no 1.0, no 0.5 - I suppose that makes sense - why get a fast thin rubber when a slightly thicker non-fast rubber (like Sriver) is available if you're going to chop?

I wonder if the new ball is the real reason, or just the excuse to come up with ever thicker sponges - even if there weren't a new ball I think they'd still have come out with thicker sponges once they'd figured out how to do it. Even the old 40mm ball hadn't reached its limit (unlike the 38mm ball, where only a few people used max sponge - most stopped with 2.0). If the new ball hadn't come out they'd have found some other excuse. If, for some reason, ITTF decided to increase the maximum rubber thickness to 5mm we'd see 3.5mm sponge.

Thing is.. how did they make the topsheet thinner??? They didn't make the pips (a lot) shorter, did they?

And what's the difference between the "R" and "V" versions?

Iskandar

They've made the outermost layer thinner than usual. Similar to butterfly with their micro layer thing.

V and R share the same sponge (although you have less hardness choice with V), but have a different topsheet. V has thinner pips, wider spaced. R has bigger pips, closer spaced. V is more focussed on speed, R on spin. The obvious analogy is T05 and T64.

Yep, so if you don't get the spin and speed that you expect, it's your fault because the rubber is perfect.

Seriously though, how often do the see these companies trying to dazzle us with technical jargon to make it sound like an evolutionary breakthrough, while in reality it's yet another tweak in technology, which may or may not make a difference to some players.
You've got to hand it to Andro though, they make the coolest promotional videos.

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It does sound like Butterfly started a bandwagon with Bryce Speed, and others are jumping aboard. I think Mantra's making the same claims, probably has a thin topsheet too. Regalis might be the same. If Nexy's ultra-short-pips topsheet is as revolutionary (rather than evolutionary) as they claim, and as reviewers here say, then there will eventually be another bandwagon in the near future. Nexy's a pretty small outfit so it may still be under the radar.

Iskandar

Here is the comparison table to existing rubbers. Talk to Robert from Affordable TT he is the andro guru along with other stuff.

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Butterfly Joo Saehyuk
Tsp curl p4 red 1.2
Rasant Powergrip black 2.1

On the dark side since April 2015. Rating 1500 Australia

An interesting anecdote here. I played against a friend in last night's competition. He had changed from T05 to Rasanter V42 on both sides. He plays as a 2 wing looper, but not your standard vanilla flavour. He's a big heavy boy and while he moves well for it, he tends to rely on leaning out and giving a heavy flick spin on the ball. Most people who lean for the ball make a lot of mistakes, but he has it down pat. Last time I played him he beat me in 5. Last night I beat him in 4. I didn't notice any more or less spin or speed on the ball compared to the Tenergy. I think his familiarity with the rubber made something of a difference, not that he didn't carry out a lot of spinny flick loops to the corners. But I think he made more errors than when I last played him. Perhaps this came down to confidence with the rubber, perhaps it came down to me making more angles that made him reach more than he likes to. I know his serves gave me just as much trouble (perhaps even a little more) than the tenergy did. And I know my top-side spin serve to his BH had him blocking it long many times, whereas he usually blocked it onto the table with Tenergy...so perhaps the Resanter produced more catapult.

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I have seen very good players along the years who struggle with rasant after tenergy. Simply because of the ball trajectory is lower with rasant. So they tend to chuck a lot of balls to the net. But once they get used to the flight then they hit a lot better than tenergy.

_________________
I'M A TURK I CANNOT KEEP CALM
Butterfly Joo Saehyuk
Tsp curl p4 red 1.2
Rasant Powergrip black 2.1

On the dark side since April 2015. Rating 1500 Australia

Great post by Andy.
I'm not convinced by the thin top sheet idea.
Bryce speed isn't so popular, or is it if you pay for Butterfly you may as well have Tenergy!
A thin top sheet will compress more but as said, the sponge hardness is another variable and would likely have a big effect.
Still, I like Rasant Grip so may try the R42

I'm sure it's mostly marketing, they have to make it sound like they've discovered something unique, and a thinner topsheet is hardly something new.

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

At the very least they will sell a lot of new rubber sheets. The new stuff doesn't have any 45 degree sponges, so everyone will have to try out at least a couple if not more sheets to find what is optimum for them.

Sales should be up for the next year or so.

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Donic Waldner World Champion 89 FL; Donic BlueStar A2 (Red) Max; DMS Firestorm (Black) 1.8

And when sales start to drop again they will come out with Rasantest...

Iskandar

I don't think they can go anywhere after rasantest though ( seriously bad naming on their side, rasanter is just as lame as xiom's naming blade and rubber the same imho.)

Their packaging is awesome tho.