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PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 22:02 
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One-Loop Man
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Dropping your racket below the table on the backswing will give you a lifting counterhit which will make you have a lifting block more often than not. In other words, stop doing it. The racket face should be as open as possible throughout the stroke with a focus on solid contact with the ball. The more spin, the more closed, but with a focus on solid contact. That contact part you do well. The lifting will limit your ability to block against very good spinners. When I counterhit or block, I am always trying to minimize the ball arc. When I see a consistent ball arc coming off my bat, I know I am not hitting or trapping the spin properly and I am lifting too much and possibly too open, but the lifting is usually the bigger problem.

The flick has some good things, but I don't get the impression you have control over the stroke as you are only trying to hit the ball at one speed. You can also be more versatile with how you finish and try to hook the ball more sometimes as well as play around and over it other times. Emphasize spin/arc sometimes. You can even try to fade it sometimes. It isn't the speed that is critical all the time, some people just struggle with the sidespin if you hit it with sidespin.

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PostPosted: 13 Jul 2017, 22:50 
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You are right about having no control with the flick but realistically if after only a couple of goes I had great control of be a genius.

Was fairly happy with the start but wasn't really able to do a steady spinny stroke. Is a bit erratic at the end. Would like it to look more like this

https://youtube/Bkn99qEsPl4

Edit: I've watched about half a dozen various backhand flick videos and the main thing I notice is that my bat never swings through above my elbow, everyone else's does. Will work on that tomorrow.

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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2017, 15:53 
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Another practice session today with a focus on Backhand flick.

Wasn't going to post video as I was a bit disappointed how it looked on camera despite feeling better and getting better results on the table however when I compared to the first video i could see improvement. Still want to get the follow through higher though with the bat finishing above elbow.


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2017, 16:50 
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The shot is more sophisticated than the video you linked to. In any case, good luck with it. When I say that you lack control, I am saying that you are swinging for power despite it being your first time attempting the shot. Try to swing to hook the ball more. The hook versions of the shot are more dangerous at lower and intermediate levels than the topspin and fade versions as you can't return the without playing an active sidespin stroke.

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PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 16:43 
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I would say to consider slowing down how fast the robot is giving you balls. If that is the minimum speed, then hit every other ball.

I would also say consider stepping back from the table some more. It is unlikely you crowd the table so much in a normal serve receive situation.

The energy you make taking one step towards the ball is transferred to your impact if plant your foot under the table, stay loose before contact, and allow the energy to flow.

Loose muscles allow one to transfer energy well if the independent sequence is effective. Tight muscles stop and hinder the flow.

In this vid you are trying to create too much energy with the arm and wrist. At that level of power it is difficult to stay consistent. In a real situation, you are initiating the kinetic energy buildup and transfer with a step and a plant foot stop, elbow out in front. Sometimes, if you are already in position, you initiate the kinetic energy from moving upper arm and elbow to the proper spot and stop it, transferring the energy to the lower arm and wrist. (if you were loose and on time) Doing these two things well will help your consistency, and later, your spin and power, plus variation.

You are using too much motion with entire arm to be consistent at this power level.

The banana flip uses the elbow as a hinge to move arm side swipe style for control and at impact forward for power/speed.

It is difficult to get all the moving pieces right all at once at the table, it can get pretty depressing to see the failure rate time and time again.

Consider taking NL's advice and go a more progressive route towards the goal, focusing on movement to position (which you seem to move your feet at least) and reduced power. Stage it up progressively, although an effective flip IS a violent shot and should be done so, at first stages, use less violence and more position timing and effective bio mechanics.

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PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 17:31 
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Took my third video in the series, after reading Next Level's post but before Der Echte's but what I took from NL was 'walk before you run' and it seems DE's comment is of the same theme.

My robot is on setting 3 out of 8 for frequency so next time will slow things down and take a step back. I actually did notice I was remaining close to the table which is not where my normal starting point would be so need to flick then return to ready position.

Despite this I did a slightly smaller backswing and felt I followed through more and was definitely more consistent.


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PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 17:38 
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Your new video is better. You are getting more spin now. You will be surprised that you will still score more points doing a pure sidespin version of the shot similar to the original Petr Korbel Chiquita where the racket comes over the ball less and finishes more forward at least in the early stage of the shot. I will try to find video and post when I have time. I know many people are enamored with the pro looking shot, but I prefer stuff that wins easy points. Better to have a weird looking shot that people hit into the net or the side wall than a pro looking shot that people block back onto the table.

Power is good, but sidespin is better.

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PostPosted: 15 Jul 2017, 17:53 
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I did feel the contact was better and not so erratic, I felt more in control of each shot. Love hearing the fizzzzzzz as the ball goes spinning into the catch net.

No need for a vid, I practised that a bit today as have been watching. I don't tend to post every shot I do, just usually 1 minute, of randomness, not the best bits. One more video to go in the series before back to work Monday, which I'll do tommorrow. Will do a bit of sidespin if I can, will also slow down the frequency and step back to my normal position.

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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2017, 21:28 
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Unfortunately no 4th vid today, spent 3 hours doing teams for our next season.

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PostPosted: 17 Jul 2017, 06:24 
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No need for video, cobalt, lol.

I just keep remembering all the misconceptions I used to have watching people do these strokes without the right experiences so I try to help.

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PostPosted: 17 Jul 2017, 06:43 
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Ttedge.com did a recent video on this stroke that helped me. Starting the stroke to the right of the right hip and having the blade more parallel to the table added a of power and control to my stroke. To do this I t think you need to get the elbow more out in front??


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PostPosted: 17 Jul 2017, 08:17 
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NextLevel wrote:
No need for video, cobalt, lol.

I just keep remembering all the misconceptions I used to have watching people do these strokes without the right experiences so I try to help.

No sorry, just meant I've been watching them all so just wanted to save you the trouble.

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PostPosted: 04 Aug 2017, 22:37 
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Winter has set in here so not much robot time. My time now is taken up watching videos, dreaming and thinking of my next rubber purchase in a few months when my current ones reach their 12 months. :clap:

In many rubber review and discussions, Hurricane 3 / (neo), keeps coming up. I've always wondered what this plays like but don't want to risk getting it and finding I don't like it. Ok so its only $20 down the drain but my part scrooge / part OCD wouldn't let me do that put in on the scrap heap until I've at least got my money's worth.

So for those that that have seen my videos or are prepared to look, would this rubber suit me either backhand or forehand. Maybe its another case of me not really being good enough or consistent enough for it make a big difference to any other rubber.

We've got someone at the club who just went back to China and bought a DHS 6006 Superstar Wang Hao premade (about $60 US) and that has Hurricane 3 and Tin Arc 3 on it so maybe I'll have a go with that, despite being penhold.

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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2017, 15:37 
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I use H3 on my FH.
I've Tried it on my BH and hated it.
The sponge is Too hard for me.

It definitely plays different than all the ESN rubbers and any modern tension type rubbers.
I find hard rubbers with a tacky top sheet reward full strokes in speed and spin.
Half strokes won't make it over the net like a tensor would.

H3 is great for serve, control over the table and of course looping.

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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2017, 23:04 
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Red Roar wrote:
I use H3 on my FH.
I've Tried it on my BH and hated it.
The sponge is Too hard for me.

It definitely plays different than all the ESN rubbers and any modern tension type rubbers.
I find hard rubbers with a tacky top sheet reward full strokes in speed and spin.
Half strokes won't make it over the net like a tensor would.

H3 is great for serve, control over the table and of course looping.
That actually sounds similar to me Kokutaku 868 experiment 6 months ago. Half shots were dead in the net.


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Sunflex Hurricane, Milky Way 955 LP OX , 729 802-40 2.0


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