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 Post subject: Re: SPINLORD Gipfelsturm
PostPosted: 02 Sep 2016, 08:49 
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This rubber is very very interesting. I agree with manufacturer description. This rubber behave like short or long pips depends on type of stroke. When you perform drive stroke this rubber is fantastic, so opponent can not back the ball on the table, or can but with lifting or chopping the ball. My opponent say that hits like drive, flip or aggressive push are very very dangerous similar with hard smash with long pips (but better control). I guess because the pips are very long. On the other hand, you can spin the ball when serve or when play loop against slow pushed or chopped balls, maybe because the pips are ribbed. Trajectory is very low, and the rubber is insensitive to spin a lot. The control is also good. Clearly, i made a lot of mistakes but i need to adapt. I have only one problem, when drive low, medium speed ball, because trajectory is low so i hit in the net or send over the table. This was my first training session, so i have time to adopt.

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 Post subject: Re: SPINLORD Gipfelsturm
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2016, 19:35 
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mataxxl wrote:
This rubber is very very interesting. I agree with manufacturer description. This rubber behave like short or long pips depends on type of stroke. When you perform drive stroke this rubber is fantastic, so opponent can not back the ball on the table, or can but with lifting or chopping the ball. My opponent say that hits like drive, flip or aggressive push are very very dangerous similar with hard smash with long pips (but better control). I guess because the pips are very long. On the other hand, you can spin the ball when serve or when play loop against slow pushed or chopped balls, maybe because the pips are ribbed. Trajectory is very low, and the rubber is insensitive to spin a lot. The control is also good. Clearly, i made a lot of mistakes but i need to adapt. I have only one problem, when drive low, medium speed ball, because trajectory is low so i hit in the net or send over the table. This was my first training session, so i have time to adopt.


After one month with this rubber i will give my update. This rubber is very disruptive for opponents, but all kinds of attack are very inconsistent. Because of spin reverse, when you hit aggressively, ball go over the table or hit in the net. Attacking is lottery. You have to drive ball with medium speed to fall on the table. Some pushes and chops are good. But if you want to win the point(make winners), this rubber is not for that. Definitely, Gipfel is not attack minded (short) pips. You must wait opponent to make a mistake or to wait a lose balls to attack but with other side of the racket. This is why i think that this rubber is far better for backhand. I used Gipfel 1.8 mm on forehand and anti on backand, and i cannot election with different balls which come to my forehand. Make me nervous and i feel that i walk on eggs.

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 Post subject: Re: SPINLORD Gipfelsturm
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2016, 19:42 
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Sounds like the attacks need to be more like long pimple attacks, so that backspin balls can be attacked hard, but topspin balls must be hit more gently, unless they're high enough to hit straight through.

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 Post subject: Re: SPINLORD Gipfelsturm
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2016, 21:21 
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This really isn't a rubber that can / should be treated like a SP, or even a MP. You need to play LP shots with it. To my mind it's more like DHS C7 than, say, Friendship 563.

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 Post subject: Re: SPINLORD Gipfelsturm
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2016, 03:20 
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haggisv wrote:
Sounds like the attacks need to be more like long pimple attacks, so that backspin balls can be attacked hard, but topspin balls must be hit more gently, unless they're high enough to hit straight through.


Haggisv,
you chose right words. Actually, Gipel is very dangerous for opponents, but you need a lot of time to master it with sophisticated chosen tactic and strokes which should be a combination between SP and LP strokes. Nice rubber for investigation.

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 Post subject: Re: SPINLORD Gipfelsturm
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2016, 06:09 
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mataxxl wrote:
haggisv wrote:
Sounds like the attacks need to be more like long pimple attacks, so that backspin balls can be attacked hard, but topspin balls must be hit more gently, unless they're high enough to hit straight through.


Haggisv,
you chose right words. Actually, Gipel is very dangerous for opponents, but you need a lot of time to master it with sophisticated chosen tactic and strokes which should be a combination between SP and LP strokes. Nice rubber for investigation.


Hi,
are few months already I switched for a 2 SP's rubbers and I resolve to play with Gipfelsturm 1,8 on my BH and Waran 2.0 in my FH as the Ukraine gentleman. I recently change from Carbon-balsa blade to OFF Ishlion blade BTY w/ Ultra Light Carbon for most consistent FH. This combination in my shakehands style works well. I can drive nicely my BH very close an inverted one and when change from BH twisted hit to flat one my opponent immediately open in center, center-left side with BH topspin. Here is where I believe my BH works well because my parallel block, drop down :lol: and my opponent have to made a controlled new topspin :headbang: : if in my BH, I continue in his BH and so on :devil: ; if in my FH, Waran 2.0 punch very well quick and fast 8) . Recently I introduce this style formerly in Brazil (where I live) and with surprise I realize 5 finals in 5 competitions in the 50° National Championship ;) . I'm still working out to improve my footwork 'cause it is really demanding work ;( but when result I'm really happy :D .


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 Post subject: Re: SPINLORD Gipfelsturm
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2016, 10:59 
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This was my opinion of gipfelsturm when compared to spinlord keiler (I thought I'd post it here in case anyone came looking):

Gipfelsturm has quite a bit less spin capability. It kills off spin and can play some of the long pip strokes, such as the long pip punchblock against back spin. But it has virtually no reversal when blocking top spins, and is about as useful when chopblocking as Keiler is. It's nothing like a 'true' long pip in that regard. Gipfel returns dead balls when receiving low to medium power top spins. The more spin on the ball, the more it actually reverses. However, it takes quite a spinny loop to produce these effects and at most levels in local clubs you're not likely to encounter them. So you can expect to mainly return dead balls or very light spin reversals. It is really good as a "point and shoot" kind of rubber. Meaning that the incoming spin is scrubbed off very effectively and you can return with blocks, not having much trouble dealing with the spins. It's very forgiving on that front. Practicing on my robot with top spin/speed settings, I could block the balls back without much effort or care. Whereas with a normal inverted or even short pip, slight deviations would result in big errors. Which is why I think gipfelsturm is more of a passive rubber in comparison to Keiler. If you smash/attack more than you block, I'd say stick with Keiler. If you like to directional block against top spin balls and attack back spins (long pip style), then gipfelsturm is your man!

Gipfel is much more difficult to attack top spins with, although I think it is easier to use when attacking back spins than Keiler is. In that sense it is more of a long pip. I'd say it functions as a medium pip in most instances, but when going against heavy spins or back spin, it becomes more LP like in nature.

Black 1.8mm for reference

---

After further experimentation, I'm liking the gipfelsturm even more! So long as you don't play ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK minded, then it is a great rubber. The block game is incredible! It can also attack pushes and serves with ease. It's not a rubber for people who want LP for spin reversal. And it's not a rubber for those who want to smash through every ball, regardless of spin.

It seems best suited to those who like to block (returning dead or slightly reversed balls) and those who like to punish pushes. This rubber also chops pretty well. You can do ghost serves with it, for spin reference. Gipfelsturm blocks pretty much like inverted, but with less catapult. The benefit there is incoming spin won't bother you as much. The returns are also different enough to cause big disruption in tempo/spin. Your opponent will most likely net a bunch of balls until they get used to the reduced spin. Having said that, gipfelsturm is also capable of producing a good amount of spin when chopping. Its "looping" capability isn't very good at all. Flat hits work much better, especially against chops.

I had been using anti-spin for a good while, before returning to gipfelsturm. Having done so, I think becoming accustomed to the anti really helped me here the 2nd time around. Keeping that in mind, I think this is a rubber easier to use for LP players, rather than those coming from SP or inverted -- where this rubber will seem like a nightmare to use for them!


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 Post subject: Re: SPINLORD Gipfelsturm
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2016, 13:16 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
It can also attack pushes and serves with ease. It's not a rubber for people who want LP for spin reversal. And it's not a rubber for those who want to smash through every ball, regardless of spin.

So when you attack pushes, is it like a 'roll' type action, or a flick like with inverted, or do you push aggressively more like a LP stroke?

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 Post subject: Re: SPINLORD Gipfelsturm
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2016, 15:28 
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haggisv wrote:
skilless_slapper wrote:
It can also attack pushes and serves with ease. It's not a rubber for people who want LP for spin reversal. And it's not a rubber for those who want to smash through every ball, regardless of spin.

So when you attack pushes, is it like a 'roll' type action, or a flick like with inverted, or do you push aggressively more like a LP stroke?


I hold the blade angle slightly open, like with LP, and can do a straight PISTON ram right at the ball. There's no lifting involved. Whereas if you do the same stroke with inverted, the ball will drop straight down to the table. Or you can do the 'slap' kind of stroke, that is pretty flat but more powerful. Like this hit here (https://youtu.be/zPfzID-HHVc?t=3m15s). I play with it on the forehand so the strokes look a bit different though. The thing is, when receiving heavy back spin balls... if you 'bop' it back slowly as you can with anti or slick LP, the ball will still drop into the net. You really need to give it a stern punch on those. However, when blocking top spin, the slick LP/anti style doesn't work. Not in 1.8mm anyway. You have to really close over the top. Because on those, the spin is mainly be taken off and not converted. So there is more danger in floating the ball long as a result.

It also can do hits like Zhou uses here against the heavy chops - https://youtu.be/Fmv_yuZqUUE?t=30m55s - More of the forceful swing throughs.

It's not really reversing the spin too much, so much as killing it off enough to allow the hit. It seems to be able to do any hit a blocking LP will do, but slightly different in effect. I've experimented doing SP smashes vs gipfelsturm, and the comparison is nowhere close at all! Gipfel will still float the ball long if you really unload on it. Whereas SP will be much more accurate and fast. Mainly against top spin/float balls there. They advertise it as being able to perform inverted strokes... nope!

A benefit though, is that it can chop no-spin balls and send them back with a good degree of backspin. That was my problem with anti. If they sent me a floater mid range... what was I supposed to do with it!? Chop back a really dead ball.

I can see most LP people trying it and saying, "Doesn't have enough reversal! Might as well be using inverted!"

And the SP/inverted people saying, "Doesn't have enough grip! Might as well be using anti!"

It falls somewhere in the middle, leaning toward LP. With thinner sponge, I'd think much more toward LP.


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 Post subject: Re: SPINLORD Gipfelsturm
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2016, 19:27 
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 Post subject: Re: SPINLORD Gipfelsturm
PostPosted: 30 Jul 2017, 08:42 
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Here is our review of the Gipfelsturm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc2ibkWcfqs


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 Post subject: Re: SPINLORD Gipfelsturm
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2017, 10:15 
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I'd like to give this pip a try. Anyone have a sheet they don't want. Willingness by to trade or sell?

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 Post subject: Re: SPINLORD Gipfelsturm
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2017, 02:09 
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Gipfelsturm just like Keiler in 1.8mm will probably work best on a fairly hard wood carbon or balsa carbon blade as otherwise may be somewhat mushy and imprecise. Cherepnin uses balsa carbon blades and the way he blocks and attacks with Gipfelsturm is great to watch. His own instructional videos are worth watching where he talks about his blades /rubbers and unique playing style.

After trying initially Keiler in 1.8mm have had to switch to 1.2mm and 1.5mm on my all round wood and balsa blades. Would love to try Gip if it was available in 1.5mm.


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