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 Post subject: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017, 18:51 
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Hi guys.

Was just wondering, if there's any scenario where a traditional penhold backhand would be more suitable over RPB. Im not referring to a backhand push, but rather a full blooded drive/loop. Or is the traditional backhand drive inherently inferior to RPB?


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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017, 22:15 
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Penhold needs more physique to take control of the game. Traditional backhand will need additional flexibility and strength over RPB...

(Just my view)

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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017, 23:14 
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I actually feel like, below 1800 there is often a strange quality to the TBH at certain times because most penholders have to develop a unique stroke to get topspin on the shot. As such, there is a little bit of deception in TBH because sometimes it's a fishing stroke, block, drive or topspin, with relatively few differences in the stroke's aesthetics. In general, the ball quality is different too, tending to be flatter, less spinny, and a higher trajectory. They also tend to bounce toward the end of the table, and right-handed penhold players usually put that to another right hand player's BH.
I think above 1800 people are quite versed in playing against TBH and it loses it's weirdness, and is simply just a weak shot.

It's more about unfamiliarity with the stroke itself.

That being said, a TBH smash is very tough to deal with if you float a ball to a TBH player's BH, look out.

But backhand to backhand, 90% of the time same level RBP will be superior in spin and speed to TBH. The exception being the smash stroke.

When do I think TBH is superior?

I think on Defense, a TBH is superior for lobbing and fishing. Hard to get your wrists to contort to RBP far from the table. Also, superior in blocking, particularly when covering the center of the body to the elbow....harder to do with either RBP or shakehand.

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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2017, 13:22 
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Japsican wrote:
I actually feel like, below 1800 there is often a strange quality to the TBH at certain times because most penholders have to develop a unique stroke to get topspin on the shot. As such, there is a little bit of deception in TBH because sometimes it's a fishing stroke, block, drive or topspin, with relatively few differences in the stroke's aesthetics. In general, the ball quality is different too, tending to be flatter, less spinny, and a higher trajectory. They also tend to bounce toward the end of the table, and right-handed penhold players usually put that to another right hand player's BH.
I think above 1800 people are quite versed in playing against TBH and it loses it's weirdness, and is simply just a weak shot.

It's more about unfamiliarity with the stroke itself.

That being said, a TBH smash is very tough to deal with if you float a ball to a TBH player's BH, look out.

But backhand to backhand, 90% of the time same level RBP will be superior in spin and speed to TBH. The exception being the smash stroke.

When do I think TBH is superior?

I think on Defense, a TBH is superior for lobbing and fishing. Hard to get your wrists to contort to RBP far from the table. Also, superior in blocking, particularly when covering the center of the body to the elbow....harder to do with either RBP or shakehand.


This is the impression i get too. TPB has the advantage of surprise, especially if pulled off by a modern day penholder who generally utilizes RPB a lot. And on the aesthetic side, a TPB is a thing of beauty.


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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2017, 10:10 
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In the old days around here, penholders were far more common than shakehands players. It was the default style schoolkids would pick up. So everyone got used to penhold backhand returns (no such thing as RPB back then) and no one thought it was "weird". The thing was (and is), at the lower levels of the game, penhold backhand drives were WEAK. Takes quite a bit of contorting, and most kids didn't actually receive any coaching on proper technique. Even at the higher levels, the main drawback to the penhold grip was REACH on the backhand side. You couldn't really topspin drive on the backhand unless the ball was more or less inside your left shoulder (for a right hander) so you see penholders standing way over to the backhand side (they still do). The RPB, if it does one thing, extends this reach. The ADVANTAGE of the traditional penhold backhand was that there's no forehand-backhand transition like there is with Shakehands - in the middle it's a continuum, so for close-to-the-table play and for blocking it's fantastic. You can also use the wrist and grip movements to put all sorts of different spins on the ball.

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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2017, 14:23 
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TPB was a great and effective stroke with the 38 mm. Penhold was very effective even at the highest level of play. Just look at all the World champs and Olympics champs who played PH. TT is a very different game now.


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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2017, 17:28 
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Penhold WAS effective at the very highest levels of play?? It still is (or Xu Xin wouldn't be World No. 3).

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2017, 02:07 
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There are 3 factors. Evolution of the game. Used to be one could have a good forehand and camp out of your backhand side slamming cross courts. Not now.

#2 ball size and composition. Hard to spin a poly. What’s more with a tpb. Rpb and shake handers not run around to hit that corkscrew that jjk and fzd hit.

#3 athletes. The athletes don’t need reach. They are so fast. Always well 90% on top of the ball. Ma long et al hit their backhands on top of the ball. They don’t cross over much.

But you’re right. At most players level a consistent tpb and dominate forehand is all you need. I’m older and hitting my rpb when I’m up a whole lot in a game or down a whole lot and want to get out of there. Was the latter in my tournament Saturday last.


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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2018, 10:33 
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I think many low, no-spin balls common in amateur games are easier to deal with using TPB. You can just reach out your arm. The blade angle can be slightly upward and the ball will clear the net.

With RPB, your body has to be in a lower position and move to the exact place (for like balls to your middle). The close blade angle is trickier, you have to get that and the friction exactly right.

Also, I think you have to be a bit farther away from the table to execute RPB consistently. Most Chinese folks I see still use mainly TPB. The ones that RPB exclusively (from videos I see) loop and move farther and farther back. Not a style I like.

When I play my mom, if I try to RPB a lot I become lazy. TPB for rallies and FH kills should be enough for our levels. The brute force FH is also good in critical points in a match, when your body tenses up. (Heard this in Chinese commentary in ML/FZD WTTC final, truth! Both of them try to play a lot of FH in game 7)


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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2018, 16:14 
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Wetwork_Orange wrote:
Hi guys.

Was just wondering, if there's any scenario where a traditional penhold backhand would be more suitable over RPB. Im not referring to a backhand push, but rather a full blooded drive/loop. Or is the traditional backhand drive inherently inferior to RPB?


well, I am in opinion that both TPB and RPB complement each other. Using either exclusively is suicide

RPB has cross over, except combined with RPF, which TBD did not have. I never seen palyer ply with RPF so far.

TPB brush loop just impossible, which RPB one lethal

TPB flat drive are very difficult, short ranged, but arguably more powerful than RPB one, which loaded with sidespin

TPB block argubly much controllable than RPB.

RPB chop just non existent. TPB Chop actually can be very effective due te deft touch.


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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 03:29 
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RPB chop is easier than TPB chop IMO. RPB chop is probably better the further away from the body you take the ball, whereas TPB chop can be done closer to the body, but is far less effective because you're relying on your finger strength to stabilize the bat face.

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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 12:15 
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Tpb push is the norm on all levels of play. The touch is great and angle is natural. I rarely see rpb push. Unless we're talking about real faraway chops. I occasionally use them to save a point..the reach is better with rpb.


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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2018, 13:47 
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BeGo wrote:
RPB has cross over, except combined with RPF, which TBD did not have. I never seen palyer ply with RPF so far.


Just trying to imagine RPF... is it even possible? Sort of like extreme chicken wing... :lol:

There are lots and lots of older guys around here who learned to play in the 1970s and they play TPB. RPB's too new-fangled. They still use the wood on the backhand and serve "illegally".

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2018, 14:15 
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what the heck is an RPF

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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2018, 14:45 
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Silver wrote:
what the heck is an RPF

Lol, Reverse Penhold Forehand

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