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 Post subject: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017, 18:51 
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Hi guys.

Was just wondering, if there's any scenario where a traditional penhold backhand would be more suitable over RPB. Im not referring to a backhand push, but rather a full blooded drive/loop. Or is the traditional backhand drive inherently inferior to RPB?


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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017, 22:15 
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Penhold needs more physique to take control of the game. Traditional backhand will need additional flexibility and strength over RPB...

(Just my view)

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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017, 23:14 
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I actually feel like, below 1800 there is often a strange quality to the TBH at certain times because most penholders have to develop a unique stroke to get topspin on the shot. As such, there is a little bit of deception in TBH because sometimes it's a fishing stroke, block, drive or topspin, with relatively few differences in the stroke's aesthetics. In general, the ball quality is different too, tending to be flatter, less spinny, and a higher trajectory. They also tend to bounce toward the end of the table, and right-handed penhold players usually put that to another right hand player's BH.
I think above 1800 people are quite versed in playing against TBH and it loses it's weirdness, and is simply just a weak shot.

It's more about unfamiliarity with the stroke itself.

That being said, a TBH smash is very tough to deal with if you float a ball to a TBH player's BH, look out.

But backhand to backhand, 90% of the time same level RBP will be superior in spin and speed to TBH. The exception being the smash stroke.

When do I think TBH is superior?

I think on Defense, a TBH is superior for lobbing and fishing. Hard to get your wrists to contort to RBP far from the table. Also, superior in blocking, particularly when covering the center of the body to the elbow....harder to do with either RBP or shakehand.

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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2017, 13:22 
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Japsican wrote:
I actually feel like, below 1800 there is often a strange quality to the TBH at certain times because most penholders have to develop a unique stroke to get topspin on the shot. As such, there is a little bit of deception in TBH because sometimes it's a fishing stroke, block, drive or topspin, with relatively few differences in the stroke's aesthetics. In general, the ball quality is different too, tending to be flatter, less spinny, and a higher trajectory. They also tend to bounce toward the end of the table, and right-handed penhold players usually put that to another right hand player's BH.
I think above 1800 people are quite versed in playing against TBH and it loses it's weirdness, and is simply just a weak shot.

It's more about unfamiliarity with the stroke itself.

That being said, a TBH smash is very tough to deal with if you float a ball to a TBH player's BH, look out.

But backhand to backhand, 90% of the time same level RBP will be superior in spin and speed to TBH. The exception being the smash stroke.

When do I think TBH is superior?

I think on Defense, a TBH is superior for lobbing and fishing. Hard to get your wrists to contort to RBP far from the table. Also, superior in blocking, particularly when covering the center of the body to the elbow....harder to do with either RBP or shakehand.


This is the impression i get too. TPB has the advantage of surprise, especially if pulled off by a modern day penholder who generally utilizes RPB a lot. And on the aesthetic side, a TPB is a thing of beauty.


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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2017, 10:10 
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In the old days around here, penholders were far more common than shakehands players. It was the default style schoolkids would pick up. So everyone got used to penhold backhand returns (no such thing as RPB back then) and no one thought it was "weird". The thing was (and is), at the lower levels of the game, penhold backhand drives were WEAK. Takes quite a bit of contorting, and most kids didn't actually receive any coaching on proper technique. Even at the higher levels, the main drawback to the penhold grip was REACH on the backhand side. You couldn't really topspin drive on the backhand unless the ball was more or less inside your left shoulder (for a right hander) so you see penholders standing way over to the backhand side (they still do). The RPB, if it does one thing, extends this reach. The ADVANTAGE of the traditional penhold backhand was that there's no forehand-backhand transition like there is with Shakehands - in the middle it's a continuum, so for close-to-the-table play and for blocking it's fantastic. You can also use the wrist and grip movements to put all sorts of different spins on the ball.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2017, 14:23 
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TPB was a great and effective stroke with the 38 mm. Penhold was very effective even at the highest level of play. Just look at all the World champs and Olympics champs who played PH. TT is a very different game now.


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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2017, 17:28 
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Penhold WAS effective at the very highest levels of play?? It still is (or Xu Xin wouldn't be World No. 3).

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: TPB vs RPB
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2017, 02:07 
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There are 3 factors. Evolution of the game. Used to be one could have a good forehand and camp out of your backhand side slamming cross courts. Not now.

#2 ball size and composition. Hard to spin a poly. What’s more with a tpb. Rpb and shake handers not run around to hit that corkscrew that jjk and fzd hit.

#3 athletes. The athletes don’t need reach. They are so fast. Always well 90% on top of the ball. Ma long et al hit their backhands on top of the ball. They don’t cross over much.

But you’re right. At most players level a consistent tpb and dominate forehand is all you need. I’m older and hitting my rpb when I’m up a whole lot in a game or down a whole lot and want to get out of there. Was the latter in my tournament Saturday last.


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