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 Post subject: spinny rubber
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 00:46 
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Hi there my usatt ranking is around 1500. My current setup is Mark V max on BH and Hurricane 3 max on FH with a slower R2 all wood blade bought from colestt. The last few tournaments I have played I have lost to some folks because I was not able to pick serves which were way too spinny and forehand loops also way to spinny you block it and it would fly off the table. My serves even though I usually trouble my similar ranked players with my serves I was not to these players. I know some of these players are probably higher in the 1600 to 1700 range but there is something about their setups which I feel is causing me to be at a disadvantage. So my question is if there is something I could do to upgrade my setup to compete better against such players.


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 Post subject: Re: spinny rubber
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 04:49 
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I would start with your forehand rubber. I believe H3 is a hard tacky rubber so in max will need a lot of power and skill to control heavy top spin.
Try a more forgiving control orientated medium sponge tensor in 1.9/2.0mm that is not too sensitive to spin and good for blocking.. Regalis red, Aurus select, Vega Asia Df etc.


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 Post subject: Re: spinny rubber
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 04:57 
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pacificspice wrote:
Hi there my usatt ranking is around 1500. My current setup is Mark V max on BH and Hurricane 3 max on FH with a slower R2 all wood blade bought from colestt. The last few tournaments I have played I have lost to some folks because I was not able to pick serves which were way too spinny and forehand loops also way to spinny you block it and it would fly off the table. My serves even though I usually trouble my similar ranked players with my serves I was not to these players. I know some of these players are probably higher in the 1600 to 1700 range but there is something about their setups which I feel is causing me to be at a disadvantage. So my question is if there is something I could do to upgrade my setup to compete better against such players.


Yes and no.

I played with a H3 for about six months (maybe even longer) and it's not an easy rubber to play with since it's very spin sensitive. It's extremely grippy therefore it reacts to the incoming spin more than other rubbers. So, yes, H3 might be part of your issue. And, no, you can't just upgrade to something else and all of a sudden you start winning left and right against those players. Don't forget that at 1700 they are a full level above you. Your serve receive and your blocking game aren't as good as theirs. Check this out: http://www.tabletenniscoaching.com/node/19

I am approximately ~500 points higher than you are and my advice would be to just get two regular tensors (don't get max) and to just stick with them. If you like Mark V, then maybe get Rakza 7 in 2.0. The setup will feel a bit bouncy at first since you are used to the Hurricane/Mark V but you will grow into it very quickly. Keep the blade.

Just my 2c.


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 Post subject: Re: spinny rubber
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 06:24 
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Rakza 7 looks like a non-tensor. Could I go with Rakza 7 soft 2.0 on BH instead. And can you suggest a few tensors for FH.

notfound123 wrote:
pacificspice wrote:
Hi there my usatt ranking is around 1500. My current setup is Mark V max on BH and Hurricane 3 max on FH with a slower R2 all wood blade bought from colestt. The last few tournaments I have played I have lost to some folks because I was not able to pick serves which were way too spinny and forehand loops also way to spinny you block it and it would fly off the table. My serves even though I usually trouble my similar ranked players with my serves I was not to these players. I know some of these players are probably higher in the 1600 to 1700 range but there is something about their setups which I feel is causing me to be at a disadvantage. So my question is if there is something I could do to upgrade my setup to compete better against such players.


Yes and no.

I played with a H3 for about six months (maybe even longer) and it's not an easy rubber to play with since it's very spin sensitive. It's extremely grippy therefore it reacts to the incoming spin more than other rubbers. So, yes, H3 might be part of your issue. And, no, you can't just upgrade to something else and all of a sudden you start winning left and right against those players. Don't forget that at 1700 they are a full level above you. Your serve receive and your blocking game aren't as good as theirs. Check this out: http://www.tabletenniscoaching.com/node/19

I am approximately ~500 points higher than you are and my advice would be to just get two regular tensors (don't get max) and to just stick with them. If you like Mark V, then maybe get Rakza 7 in 2.0. The setup will feel a bit bouncy at first since you are used to the Hurricane/Mark V but you will grow into it very quickly. Keep the blade.

Just my 2c.


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 Post subject: Re: spinny rubber
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 08:48 
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Your problem isn't related to equipment. While there is, of course, some variation, the fact remains that any regular inverted rubber is going to be responsive to a good serve or a loaded topspin. You just need to get better at reading spin, and accommodating it, with bat angle and touch.

Similarly with your serves. Everyone finds this - up to a certain level their serves are fine, even an advantage, but the next level up, they're not so effective, and the level above that they're a liability. You need to tighten up the serves - keep them low over the net. Long serves must be genuinely long - bouncing on the last 3-4 inches of the table, and short serves need to be both short and low over the net, with quality spin, and, ideally, bouncing exactly twice, not three or four times, as this usually means the flight of the ball is a little high.

By all means change your equipment, but it won't make a blind bit of difference to your results - you'll still fail to block loaded topspins, hit serves in the net, long, or off the side, and you'll still serve with insufficient spin, too slowly, mid-length, perfect for your opponent to attack without risk.

Instead, try to find some people who can generate a lot of spin, on serve, or against push, or drive, and work on exercises where you have to read and respond to the spin. Similarly, practice your serves until you have consistent height, and length, and are producing a lot of high quality spin. You can do all of this with Hurricane 3, Rakza 7, any Tensor, any generic cheap Chinese rubber.

You're not alone - I'm in the same boat - so is anyone who is trying to improve. You'll always find that people a couple of levels above you are just better: they produce more spin, have better disguise, better variation, can read your spin, see through your disguise, spot your variation, and will pounce upon your weak shots. Changing your rubbers will simply make you $100 poorer. Unless your rubbers have actually perished or are damaged beyond repair, or are very very old, you'd be better off spending that money on a few hours of quality coaching, or a video camera or tripod, a box of balls, or bribing a much better player with a few beers, dinner, whatever they can be bribed with :)

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 Post subject: Re: spinny rubber
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 09:12 
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I have received over 30 hours of coaching just on blocks while in China. My coach is 2600+. I have used Mark 5, Venus, Tenergy, many Chinese rubbers plus many others, all in Max. Your problem is not the rubber. My coach even starts beginners with Max rubbers on a slower blade. Use the money for a good coach. :)


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 Post subject: Re: spinny rubber
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 11:50 
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Agree with the above posts. Every level above has more spin, placement and consistency than the level below. The are too many different opponents things to counter to get equipment that can reduce their strengths. Time and experience is the key here. You just likely need more exposure to these things. If you practice of play with higher levels you will adjust to the faster pace and more spin.

As far as equipment goes, get something that suits your style and you enjoy playing with as no matter what you use, those opponents will still be a challenge until you adjust. You might as well enjoy your own game for the other times.

This season we have a mixed comp with several b graders playing against a graders. I tend to still play pretty hard against the lower players because if I don't they won't get the opportunity to improve. For example if someone serves long to my forehand, I smash it. Some players don't learn, the smarter ones and the ones wanting to improve do make adjustments and improve, and so will you. I'm also happy to help them if they ask so don't be afraid to ask these better players what to do against them.

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 Post subject: Re: spinny rubber
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 17:18 
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pacificspice wrote:
Hi there my usatt ranking is around 1500. My current setup is Mark V max on BH and Hurricane 3 max on FH with a slower R2 all wood blade bought from colestt. The last few tournaments I have played I have lost to some folks because I was not able to pick serves which were way too spinny and forehand loops also way to spinny you block it and it would fly off the table. My serves even though I usually trouble my similar ranked players with my serves I was not to these players. I know some of these players are probably higher in the 1600 to 1700 range but there is something about their setups which I feel is causing me to be at a disadvantage. So my question is if there is something I could do to upgrade my setup to compete better against such players.


I agree 100% with LordCope and Cobalt - the problem isn't the equipment. It's your level. The only way to improve is, well, to improve. Your opponents play better, it's not their equipment that is better.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: spinny rubber
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 18:40 
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Your setup is completely fine, nothing wrong with it. You really should take your bucks and spend it on a coach before even thinking of equipment changes.
With a coach you can train serving and receiving techiques, and you should also train your strategic thinking; try to make strategies on the 5th ball.

There's no problem if the opponent isn't having troubles with your serve as long as you know what will happen and how to react on the return. Even a simple serve can give you the upper hand and it's quite astonishing how many players actually know how to play pendulum serves but fail on well placed underspin serves.

My actual equipment is priced at $35 or so and if I was allowed to take the scalp after winning from players with 'better' equipment it would be enough to paper the wall with it (yes, I know, I should update my blog...).

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 Post subject: Re: spinny rubber
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 21:30 
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Replacing your current setup with tensors is not what I would recommend. The current setup is great for learning how to spin, handle spin and generate your own power.

You need to spend time playing people better than you. Then you will learn how to handle spin, and eventually, use it to your advantage.


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 Post subject: Re: spinny rubber
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 12:25 
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pacificspice wrote:
Rakza 7 looks like a non-tensor. Could I go with Rakza 7 soft 2.0 on BH instead. And can you suggest a few tensors for FH.



Yasaka has a trademark to use "STM" which is I believe a Tensor naming ( Either you have Tensor BIOS etc branding on your rubber or you can "buy" rights to call it something else ). Can someone check that and correct me pls ?

Edit: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3906


Last edited by man_iii on 15 Nov 2017, 21:55, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: spinny rubber
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 19:06 
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man_iii wrote:
pacificspice wrote:
Rakza 7 looks like a non-tensor. Could I go with Rakza 7 soft 2.0 on BH instead. And can you suggest a few tensors for FH.



Yasaka has a trademark to use "STM" which is I believe a Tensor naming ( Either you have Tensor BIOS etc branding on your rubber or you can "buy" rights to call it something else ). Can someone check that and correct me pls ?

Edit: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3906


You wonder if people have to pay ESN to USE the Tensor logo and brand, OR if they have to pay to NOT use it.. :lol: If the Rakza packaging says "Made in Germany" then it's definitely a Tensor (or at least, definitely ESN).

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: spinny rubber
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 20:32 
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I'm pretty sure that in the past, Donic had to pay ESN to use their own name for the technology.

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