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 Post subject: Chopping against pushes
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 13:16 
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Hello once again OOAK Forum!

Last weekend I played in my first tournament, in which I made it to the semi's and lost. In that match, I found that most rallies became a chop from me, a push from my opponent, and I chop again, which generally leads to me making a mistake. So, what should I do in these situations? Should I twiddle, pivot attack, or something else?


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 13:37 
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Sure, you can twiddle, but you also really need to learn to push with your pips or attack underspin with your pips. Not sure what kind of mistakes you're making, but if the ball is going long, you need to close your blade a bit or add a bit of sideways action at contact to get control over the ball. The alternative is to attack underspin with your pips in any number of ways. If you come at the ball with your blade at 90 degrees to the table when the ball is just above net height, you should be able to punch it with a short forearm motion (just don't move your wrist or change your blade angle during the shot). Start off gently until you get the feel of this shot. Watch a few videos from players like Manika Batra or Ronel Davidov, both of whom are great at attacking with pips in this way and in many others.

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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 09:48 
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I don't think it's so much the fact that your decision to chop led to you making a mistake. Whenever you return a ball, you have to be able to read what spin the ball has, how strong the spin is, how fast the ball is, and how high/low (as well as short/long) the ball is and act accordingly. Whether you choose to chop, push, or loop, I think it doesn't matter as long as you take into account the things I just talked about. For instance, if I were in your situation, let's say the opponent does a long topspin serve and I am able to anticipate it and create enough time for me to react; you said you chopped, received a push, chopped again and made a mistake. What kind of mistake you made, I have no idea; but let's go back to the scenario I'm presenting. I would step back, let the ball drop a bit, and do a mini chop; because the ball has topspin, it will naturally grip the rubber's surface and go up. Because I'm following through with a small chop motion, the ball will still have backspin on it. If for whatever reason my return has enough backspin on it to make my opponent push the ball (that's shot #2 in your scenario), if it was a short push with mild backspin, I would receive it by turning my racket angle to a level that's relatively (maybe almost) horizontal to the surface of the table and push forward, adding a bit of side spin for control while making sure I contact the ball relatively quick with a brushing contact (so my return has the necessary amount of backspin to ensure my return isn't vulnerable to a kill-shot opportunity) deep to their BH side. Sorry for this ramble, I get a bit carried away; I guess my real point here is that you have to adjust your racket angle, your arm speed, timing, contact, follow-through, etc. depending on the aspects of your opponent's return; if you make a mistake, it's because you read something wrong, like what spin the ball has (or other reasons)

I could be wrong, but I think what really decides your next shot is determined by what your play style is, your strategies/tactics, what you want your game to be like, and just whatever you feel like doing.

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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 12:29 
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CottonEyeJoe wrote:
Hello once again OOAK Forum!

Last weekend I played in my first tournament, in which I made it to the semi's and lost. In that match, I found that most rallies became a chop from me, a push from my opponent, and I chop again, which generally leads to me making a mistake. So, what should I do in these situations? Should I twiddle, pivot attack, or something else?


IMHO it comes down to one very simple thing: you have to learn how to push with your pips against a push. No need to twiddle, look for workarounds, etc - you have to be able to push vs inverted (and vs another LP). Keep your elbow close to your body and brush that ball with a follow-through.


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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 13:02 
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notfound123 wrote:
CottonEyeJoe wrote:
Hello once again OOAK Forum!

Last weekend I played in my first tournament, in which I made it to the semi's and lost. In that match, I found that most rallies became a chop from me, a push from my opponent, and I chop again, which generally leads to me making a mistake. So, what should I do in these situations? Should I twiddle, pivot attack, or something else?


IMHO it comes down to one very simple thing: you have to learn how to push with your pips against a push. No need to twiddle, look for workarounds, etc - you have to be able to push vs inverted (and vs another LP). Keep your elbow close to your body and brush that ball with a follow-through.

Hey there, notfound. Would you say there's a big difference between LP pushing and Inverted pushing (in reference to pips like P1-R and P4)?

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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 13:44 
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Danthespearton HQ wrote:
Hey there, notfound. Would you say there's a big difference between LP pushing and Inverted pushing (in reference to pips like P1-R and P4)?


Pushing with an inverted requires a fairly short and quick motion and also most attackers push somewhat right off the bounce.

When pushing with an LP whether P1 or P4 you can't really use the same motion although it's kind of similar... the difference has to do with inverted being faster than any LP so the LP push is somewhat more gentle and "longer" if this makes any sense. You must have a follow-through or else you will push into the net. There are also a few variations of LP pushes (aggressive, "normal", chop/block, etc.) Finally different LPs push differently: for example, P4 pushes would feel inverted-like vs P1R would not be as spinny.


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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 14:16 
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notfound123 wrote:
Danthespearton HQ wrote:
Hey there, notfound. Would you say there's a big difference between LP pushing and Inverted pushing (in reference to pips like P1-R and P4)?


Pushing with an inverted requires a fairly short and quick motion and also most attackers push somewhat right off the bounce.

When pushing with an LP whether P1 or P4 you can't really use the same motion although it's kind of similar... the difference has to do with inverted being faster than any LP so the LP push is somewhat more gentle and "longer" if this makes any sense. You must have a follow-through or else you will push into the net. There are also a few variations of LP pushes (aggressive, "normal", chop/block, etc.) Finally different LPs push differently: for example, P4 pushes would feel inverted-like vs P1R would not be as spinny.

Huh. That's interesting. That may explain why I was able to push balls incredibly short with my first time trying LPs. Anyways, I fancy myself an SP defender now, so it's kind of too bad :P I can relate to pushing with a short motion; I definitely don't need to push the ball back the way Joo does.

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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2017, 15:15 
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Listen to notfound.

Although it’s wise to learn twiddling, it can be scary. I’m trying to do it more often. But it’s not easy.

For a push/bump/punch. Watch some jian lee he does this really well. Especially on serves.
For a side swipe. Watch Chen weixing. He is a master. Often overlooked in the modern defender category as everyone looks to jsh, but he is very very good. Yes he uses swipes mostly against serves, but on a loose push will rush the table do a swipe kill. It’s lovely thing to see.

Both the bump/punch and the side swipe are great on serves, but can be done in play. You have to have pretty quick forward/back movement to exploit an opening or move back if they return it.

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