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PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 19:47 
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Blade: VKM
FH: Stiga Mantra S
BH: Dtecs OX
I would just like to share my experiences as I am super pumped to be finally playing the style I have the most fun with (playing and watching). I hope I can hype others up too :D
So, I had the opportunity to try these 3 setups for 3 hours in training, practise and matches with a few solid players (1 of them an ex coach).

This bat is not mine and I have never used or heard of this blade before
Image

This bat also not mine but I have played with this a few times
Image

This bat is mine and it is OX
Image

My game is Def-Attack. I play at mid distance and always look to be active on FH when in position. For the BH I am mainly looking to chop and when drawn close to table just to use the shovel technique. (Once I am comfortable with this style I will begin twiddling and opening with BH also).

Chopping:
FL2 - All distance this was by far the easiest to control, was more about my own positioning and stroke and less about their spin. Was very easy to keep the ball low and deep. Chopping close to the table was also the easiest to pull off.
Dtecs - This was the most difficult to control as it was so fast (but could have been the blade). I found however when opponent gave a strong and spinny loop it was less of a full chop and more of a push block which would result in a fast and deep return. I found these pips to be difficult when performing a full stroke, especially closer to the table, very very difficult.
388D OX - This was a strange one because sometimes is was fast and slow (the OX made it difficult to understand I think). It was definitely the in between for chopping at all distances. I could impart my own spin most of the time so an active stroke was required compared to the Dtecs, but not as fast a swing as the FL2.

Service receive:
FL2 - easiest by far, didn't react to anything most of the time lol I can just chop or shovel away.
Dtecs - again the most difficult however the returns were fast and usually quite dangerous.
388D - not as easy as I was expecting as it reacted to the spin a fair bit. But if you read the spin you actually can get some good active returns.

Attacking/blocking/Shovel tricks close to table when caught out or a short ball/push has been played:
FL2 - Safe and easy but not dangerous at all. Not good for blocking, required an active block to be consistent.
Dtecs - by far the best and most dangerous. Also very easy to use at the table. This was a monster when blocking or caught out of position, and the shovel trick is fast spinny and dangerous.
388D - Easy to play. Blocking was quite dangerous with these actually. The shovel was easy to play and can apply a little pressure with it but it wasn't dangerous enough to rely on.

Conclusion on how effective they were:
FL2 - Very consistent and probably my favourite to play with in this session just for the fact that I always felt in control and I never had to rely on my opponents spin.
Dtecs - my least favourite tbh. At the table I was dangerous but it's not really where I wanted my game to be most of the time. Once I adjusted to the technique needed at mid distance for chopping the main issue I had was almost feeling like I am not in control at all and totally reliant on my opponents spin. I didn't do badly I just wasn't happy always thinking about his spin and what mine will go back with. The chops however were really quite fast and gave opponent little time to react at times.
388D - this was a dark horse for me, because it was OX perhaps it was quite well rounded for every part of the game. I didn't quite feel as in control as the FL2 but I still felt I had enough to feel like I am manipulating my return a bit. I quite enjoyed this but I wonder really if sponge on this would make me like it more or less as at times at mid stance it can feel slow but not easy to play like the FL2 which is sometimes a bad thing.

If anyone can shed some light on 388D with sponge maybe 1.0 or something compared to OX that would be lovely, mainly focused on mid distance.

I am also playing today for another 3 hours hopefully with strong opponents again. Will give an update on how that goes.

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PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 19:59 
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Blade: VKMO
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BH: TSP SSPC2 Black 1.9mm
That's pretty cool! Out of curiosity, is there any professional player you really admire/try to emulate?

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PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 20:00 
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Also, which one did you think was the spinniest for chopping? Doesn't matter if you produced the spin on your own or you continued the spin, or if it was from the reversal.

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PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 21:15 
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Blade: VKM
FH: Stiga Mantra S
BH: Dtecs OX
tbh it was Chen Weixing that made me get addicted to TT. I generally love watching the modern defence game or def-attack. I try to take things from everyone. I really enjoy Ma Te, Wang Xi and Yuto Muramatsu right now. But i watch them all lol.

In terms of the spinniest, during practise my opponent said the Dtecs gave him more backspin so at the highest probably that. However the FL2 I could consistently give chop after chop which had good back spin to prevent a power loop whereas the Dtecs sometimes he could power loop right through some of them (was all dependant on how spinny his previous loop was and he knew that).

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PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 22:22 
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Iron Pips
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Cool that you are trying to be me ;)

Go with FLII, that is a great LP that can fo everything. Gionis has used it for many years. I used it a whole season before I changed to SP and then MP and then anti. I have used the others as well but for the game you are describing FLII is the best and also easy to learn. Dawei 388D is a great rubber also, very forgiving and controlled, but a little less grippy. And with the new balls I think you need to impart more spin of your own, and there FLII is better.

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PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 22:34 
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Blade: VKM
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BH: Dtecs OX
Def-attack wrote:
Cool that you are trying to be me ;)

Go with FLII, that is a great LP that can fo everything. Gionis has used it for many years. I used it a whole season before I changed to SP and then MP and then anti. I have used the others as well but for the game you are describing FLII is the best and also easy to learn. Dawei 388D is a great rubber also, very forgiving and controlled, but a little less grippy. And with the new balls I think you need to impart more spin of your own, and there FLII is better.


I just realised your name :rofl: didn't make the title on purpose lol.

Unfortunately that bat is not mine ;( and I have a sheet of Dtecs OX on the way so it would be a waste not to glue it on my 2nd Stiga ALL classic.
This whole time I thought my friend had FL3 so I have been writing that in replies not realising lol.
But tbh after playing with the Matsushita it feels better than the ALL classic in every way for my style except the handle :?:
So I definitely know at some point in the next few months I need to get that blade VKM or perhaps VKMO if I decide to go with FL2 which seems atm what suits my plan the most. The P1R also sounds amazing for this. So when I am looking to buy the blade I should have chosen 100% what pips I will stick with.
Anyway time will tell I will just continue to enjoy the ride until then :rock:

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PostPosted: 22 Jan 2018, 08:02 
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Blade: VKM
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BH: Dtecs OX
Ok so I played again for 3 hours today, with different people than yesterday. But only with 2 bats today, mine (388D) and the FL2.

FL2 + Matsushita: This was honestly just such a beautiful combo and I enjoyed it so much and played so good with it. My mid distance chops were super consistent most of the time enough pressure to stop power loops. At the table I learnt a bit better how to shovel and even attack slightly high balls with or dead ball serves (still not as deadly as the 388D and Dtecs though). But the control I had with these pips were outstanding I felt I could pretty much put the ball where I wanted (when in position). Even out of position I could often stay in the point and sometimes get right back in.

388D: Today these pips really were not getting along with me. At the table I have no issues, in fact they were very good. But mid distance I was having serious issues maintaining a consistent chop and I found when I was able to get spin it was too high and if kept low it wasn't too spinny. When my friend came I let him try them and I could feel instantly his chops were not as spinny and if I gave a good high spin loop the next one I could power through easily. Perhaps its the OX which is what made is so darn difficult mid distance who knows.

Now...I have a little problem...I want to get the VKM, and I like the FL2 pips but there isn't a shop in UK or Europe (that I know of) that sells both (I prefer them to glue it for me plus postage would add up). Please someone give me a detailed comparison of the FL2 and the Curl P1R both with at least 1mm sponge as thats what the FL2 is that I used. I ask this because the P1R is sold at same shops as the VKM.

I am still waiting for my Dtecs so I won't make any decision to buy just yet until I have tried them but they are in OX.

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PostPosted: 22 Jan 2018, 09:19 
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I recently started using 388d OX on a secondary setup and find it is very good at the table for blocking and for passive reversal. I am not really a chopper (more a blocker) so it suits me well when occasionally I fall back and chop the odd one or two returns. I quite like its absorption as it soaks up a lot of oncoming speed due to the soft pips. I have also tested it in 0.7 sponge thickness and feel the sponge offers a bit more on chops away from the table with marginal difference in play close to the table. In OX and 0.7 it is a very good long pip at its cheap price. Cannot throw any light on the FL2 or P1R as I have never used them. Good luck and hope you find the right combo you are seeking ;)


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PostPosted: 22 Jan 2018, 17:07 
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Iron Pips
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Chopping with pips in ox is is not the same as chopping with sponge. Look at the thread of Sun Jian Fei who chops with lp ox. You can be more aggressive in opening your bat and using the side of the pips than one might think.

For VKM and lots of LP (perhaps not Butterfly annymore), look at www.japsko.se/en/

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PostPosted: 22 Jan 2018, 23:47 
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Blade: Defplay/Stiga All Carbon
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BH: Super FX Large Pore/T05
Def-attack wrote:
Cool that you are trying to be me ;)

Go with FLII, that is a great LP that can fo everything. Gionis has used it for many years. I used it a whole season before I changed to SP and then MP and then anti. I have used the others as well but for the game you are describing FLII is the best and also easy to learn. Dawei 388D is a great rubber also, very forgiving and controlled, but a little less grippy. And with the new balls I think you need to impart more spin of your own, and there FLII is better.

Yeah, in your other thread, when I used the term "Def-Attack" I was specifically referring to Def-Attack the person, haha! He's an awesome guy to be like.

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PostPosted: 23 Jan 2018, 06:25 
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Blade: VKM
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BH: Dtecs OX
Why do I find I have much more control with the FL2 1.0? What is it exactly that makes it so different to the 388D OX. Is the pips or the sponge? or could it even be the Matsushita making a big difference compared to my Stiga ALL classic. The FL2 just reacts a lot less to the incoming spin I feel.

I checked that shop, no butterfly :(
I will most likely at some point just buy the VKM and FL2 from different shops and glue it myself, because I am a bit worried I will get th P1R and it won't be as nice, but I haven't decided as I haven't seen a direct comparison yet. I will also try the 388D and Dtecs again before deciding I don't like them (perhaps this time without even toucing my friends FL2 lol)

Just another quick question though. Regarding the FL2, what sponge is best? stick to 1mm or go for more?
Same question for the P1R.

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PostPosted: 23 Jan 2018, 15:15 
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Never used FL2, but I’ve been using VKM + P1r 1.0mm for years now and highly recommend the combination. I used FL3 before and like it as well.

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Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita ST
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PostPosted: 23 Jan 2018, 16:59 
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FLII is not that different from Dawei 388D but a little more grippy and a little softer feeling I think. The rest is because of the blade and sponge. And also that different thechniques fits to different rubbers. Your natural chop seems to fit to FLII. So go with it, don’t go to P1-r unless you try it and like it more first. That rubber has a harder sponge and will feel different. Just remeber to order some water based glue, then there is no problems glueing rubber and blade together. Most players always fo that by themselves.

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PostPosted: 23 Jan 2018, 18:51 
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Thanks for the replies guys. I definitely do not know my stuff just yet but one thing I notice with most defenders or choppers who play from mid distance is a lot of them use FL2/3 or the P1R.

Yeah I am a little worried to just get the P1R without trying first, hopefully I can find someone who uses it otherwise I will probably just get the FL2 from seperate shop and glue myself (should be easy since it will have sponge).

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PostPosted: 25 Jan 2018, 01:36 
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So I trained today for 3 hours with only my 388D and actually we got on well today, we finally became friends lol.
I dunno if its the pips or that its OX but the contact and technique just needs to be adjusted for the chopping to become consistent. The pips do in fact react mildly to spin which in turn means you can manipulate and add some spin of your own. While at the same time (perhaps being OX) can send some reversal on a more passive push block type of chop mid distance. I do find it needs a softer touch than the FL2 though but all in all successful session and quite happy with my progress.

My Dtecs OX arrived today and I failed to glue it with the glue sheet so I had to do it with water based glue, luckily that worked out lol.
Might go to the club and play and possibly get some matches but I dunno as I am knackered from earlier. Otherwise Friday going to train another 3 hours again so can give them both a go back to back along with possibly my VKM + FL2 :D

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